When it comes to doing a one on one interview, Jens Pulver is usually the go-to guy for candid answers, emotions and comedy. Pulver is stepping into the PRIDE ring for the first time tonight to fight one of the worlds best in Takanori Gomi, in a fight which will be one of Shockwaves featured attractions.
However, that was then and this is now. Pulver is back on the map and ready to reinvigorate the 155-pound division, and is hoping to spearhead the fight game by landing the eagerly-anticipated rematch with Penn. But if you think Pulver is looking beyond Japans Gomi, youre wrong. Itd be preposterous to think such nonsense. Pulver (who has been receiving prank phone calls on his cell phone lately) and Gomi have wanted this fight for too long and both realize the importance of this clash.
Alright, Jens, tell me about your cell phone. Who is calling you with these nasty threatening phone calls? Who is this guy?
I dont know. It wasnt accurate; it was MMA-related, though. [Something like] hes got to do me in the butt like Michael Jackson and stuff; it was funny. I dont know, I think they ended it laughing, Im not sure. It showed up private and they didnt call back. And then I dropped the phone in the toilet, so it was all ... and AJ -- Adriana -- she got me a new phone, so I just got a new line to go with it, too.
Yeah, I figured it was someone like Gomi or BJ calling to threaten you.
Yeah, I dont know who it is. Its funny.
Thats funny. So whatve you been up to lately? I havent talked to you in a while. Last time I talked to you, uh, you were a couple of fights since the Duane Ludwig fight.
Yeah, no Ive just been training a lot. Im actually sick of training. Im done. No more. No more turtle fight -- Im done.
Yeah. Now youve been ...
Ive been running and slight grappling.
Nice. Now youve been doing professional boxing. Youre what 4-0 now?
Yeah. 4-0.
Have you been training in your grappling and mixed martial arts as long as youre boxing, or did you focus solely on boxing while you were doing that? What was your training with that?
No, I just went to a boxing gym. I went to Alley Cat Boxing and started doing a lot of boxing at a boxing gym, and just focusing solely on boxing when I was boxing. And then, I still did my other practices during the day.
Alright, so there is no chance of you being rusty at all with your mixed martial arts skills?
Uh, no. Probably not. I mean I havent been the only thing that hasnt happened in two years is I havent been against a guy who's tried to shoot on me and take me down. So thats going to be different, you know. That will offer up a little bit of fun.
So now youre fighting Gomi, what are your thoughts on him?
Ah, hes good, hes solid. Solid wrestler, solid ground skills and he hits tough. He never stops, you know. Thats what I admire about him. Hes always a worker. Always trying to finish the fight, you know. So you definitely got to be in shape to just hit his pace and go with him.
Now what kind of weaknesses do you think he has that youre going to exploit and expose?
Um, I dont know if he necessarily has weaknesses per se, other than, you know, hes just gonna try and out-wrestle me and Im not gonna allow that to happen. If it does, okay theres nothing I can do. Ive wrestled all my life. If I get out-wrestled, I get out-wrestled, but thats the way I look at it in a fight. If hes just throwing things ... I just dont want to do anything stupid. I dont want to allow him to get away with BS, you know. If hes going to beat me, hes going to beat me fair. Thats just what Im basically focusing on more than anything, is making him fight me on the same level, and not get away with any junk moves, so to speak, you know. So I wouldnt say hes got too many weaknesses, but I know what he wants to do. I definitely -- if Im on, I mean -- Im gonna stop that wrestling. If his gameplan is out-wrestling me, then let him try. Im mean, Im waiting for it.
Now when we spoke a couple years ago, this is roughly a month or so after you beat BJ, you told me that you wanted to fight Gomi. You were like, Hes the only guy I want to fight.
Yes.
Do you think the losses to Ludwig and Maxwell prevented the fight from happening for so long, or do you think it was something else? Why did it take so long to get this fight here with Gomi?
Um, oh, I think those losses, I think they did a lot to me. Um, you know I think it definitely made me have to go back and reinvent and prove to everybody that I was still a force to be reckoned with, that I still belonged up there at the top. You look back at that now and I guess everything that happened was for a reason and I somehow managed to turn it all into a blessing again. I dont know how I manage to keep doing that, but you know, at the time, I think thats exactly what happened. I took those two losses and it really put me down in the standings and it wasnt something that people wanted to see. Now, in Japan, you know thats exactly what people want to see. They want to see me and Gomi, so thats what theyre gonna get. And if its always about the promoters, you know ... I could want to fight somebody until Im blue in the face, but if the promoters dont want to make it happen, then its not gonna happen.
True. Thats a good point. Now you beat BJ. It was a solid, competitive fight. BJ pretty much handled Gomi. It took him a while, but he got him. Now, have you watched his fight with Gomi and if you have, what have you learned from BJs style against Gomi, as opposed to how you could possibly fight him?
I learned, uh, the biggest thing, the main thing I learned, more than anything, was the fact that you can ... that he can be out-wrestled with strikes and things like that. I think if you go out, if you attack him, he can be (thrown off his game). I mean, Gomi, he likes to be the aggressor and if you allow him just to sit there, then, you know, and he changes things up. You cant just sit back and wait for him. You know what I mean? You have to go after him. And thats one thing that BJ did is he went after him and stayed after him, and thats one thing I learned. In order to beat Gomi you gotta just go after him. And thats what Ive more or less took from that fight overall.
Have you ever met Gomi in person?
No, Ive seen him one time when I fought and that was it.
I met him one time, a couple of times in one day, actually. He seemed like a good guy. He knows hardly any English, but he seems like a really nice guy. So I dont know if hes been saying anything about you at all. If his respect level for you is high or low, I have no idea. Have you heard anything negative about you from his mouth?
No, I havent heard anything negative. Actually I havent heard a thing. I just know the fight is set, I know Im fighting him, thats all thats been said really to me. I dont think hes disrespecting me or my skills in anyway. I know I havent done that to him at all. Its actually been fairly quiet. You know, overall its been real quiet. Yet, Im allowing people on the keyboards to say what they want to say. You know, Ill talk to the press, but you know there havent really been bad feelings. I dont think the trash talking is there as far as, you know what I mean, theres no bad blood of any nature in this one. I think its just going to be two good fighters who were supposed to meet two years ago, given the chance to finally meet up, you know? Two former champions at 155 coming back to meet each other.
Now with all the lack of bad blood and the lack of trash talk, do you think thats a good thing for the fight or a bad thing?
I think its a good thing for the fight, because its thats what this is for. I mean this is what this is; this is just a fight. Theres no reason for bad blood or anything. I dont need to just hate this guy because Im fighting him. And this is one of those fights that prove that I dont need to hate on somebody in order to fight them. I just want to go out there and fight him. There doesnt need to be bad blood to go out there and punish somebody and do what I do and thats the one thing Ive turned around this time and you know, the way I fight. I dont hate these people that Im fighting, but Im going to go out there and dish the absolute most amount of pain I can, cause thats the way you fight and thats the way I fight, and thats the way I think a fight should go.
Exactly. And when its all said and done you guys grab a beer together; its cool, you know?
Yup. Exactly.
God forbid you happen to lose to Gomi. Now Im not saying you will and I havent made my predictions yet, but say you happen to lose, what would you do? Would you take time off from MMA? Would you go right back into it? What are your thoughts on that?
You know, if I lost, it happens. When you fight the best fighters, sometimes, you know, the gameplans just dont work. You need to go back to the board and Im in no way, shape or form going to lose. I can beat anybody on given day and thats the way I look at it. You know, I am dealing with a gigantic size difference this time around and you know, that comes into play a little bit, no excuses at all. You know, if I get beat its just because that was his day. I dont think at any moment that any one person is just that much better than me and can have there way with me. Again, if they beat me, they beat me, move on and keep on going.
Alright, now going back to your boxing career, how serious are you with boxing?
I love it. I mean Ill make no secret about it. I love boxing. Its the best way to work on my hands, you know. Ive always felt the best way if you want to improve your striking, you can only do so much hit and miss, and do so much in a gym, you actually have to get out there and test it, and the best way to do it for me was to go out there and do it live. You know, put myself in that setting where you got a crowd and youre going against somebody you dont know, and the competition levels high, you know, get that fight atmosphere going, and then, you know, cause a lot of people they do real well in the gym, but you get them out in the ring and they freeze up. They dont throw their combinations, they dont throw their punches, whatever it may be. So Ive always felt the best way to actually do it is to actually get out there live and basically put your skills to the test. Find out if you have any or not.
Now are you surprised that youve done so well so far? That youre 4 -0 and youve already been on ESPNs was it Tuesday Night Fights or Friday Night Fights?
Both were on Tuesday Night Fights.
Were you surprised that so soon you were there, or is it because of your UFC, MMA background?
I felt overwhelmed just for the simple fact that I was like, ah great, you know, I got in there against a really tough opponent and I found myself all of a sudden like, Here I am on ESPN and this is wonderful. I dont know really what Im gonna do here. That helped, you know, being on a TV show doing things like that. It helped me when ESPN came around, but if Im just boxing these guys Im expected to do well. I mean Ive never been a slouch in the gym. Everybody Ive sparred Ive always taken my boxing serious. Ive always tried to go against other boxers and spar other boxers. So I was planning when I got into it I was going into it almost as a practice stance, or trying to get my MMA better. Theres no joking and I dont want to bad, I want to win. So, its just a way of testing it. No, Im not surprised by the way Ive come after people that way, its just, you know, Ive just done pretty well so far.
If the opportunity arises, if someone like a Top Rank, or a Goossen/Tutor, or a Golden Boy says hey this kid's marketable, hes got pretty good skills, we want to sign him to a contract, would you give up your MMA career to do professional boxing for good?
No I wont give up my MMA career. If they ask me to, then thats not the person I need to sign with.
Okay.
I mean thats the way I look at it. They got to work hand in hand. Cause I tell the MMA promoters the same thing, you know, keep in mind if Im not fighting, Im boxing. So I dont keep it a secret. I want to do both, and thats just how I want to do it and Ill tell the boxing world the same thing, I want to do MMA, and MMA comes first right now. Down the road, later on, they start, somehow I get into the big, big money of boxing, obviously theres more money in boxing, a lot more money in boxing, then there is in MMA. Then I guess Ill consider it, but I dont want to give up one or the other. I want to keep them both. They work well together for me.
Have you ever considered going into professional Muay Thai or kickboxing at all, or joining the K-1 Max?
No, thats why I like the F-Cup so well, and I had such a good time doing the F-Cup was because it was almost like doing some Muay Thai; its like riding a bike with training wheels, thats the way I always describe it, because you can still clench, you can do standing submissions. You know what I mean?
Yeah.
Things like that, so if things got real bad I could always revert back to a wrestling style and, you know, get myself out of there. Where in the K-1 Max, things like that, you know, youre in a world of trouble. You know, cause you cant clench, you cant do the standing submissions, things like that, so its like, Ive always been that way. Its like riding a bike on training wheels; its a nice safe place. You know, if a kick still gives me problems, its not good for a boxer, you have to change your movements up all the way, you know, if I was gonna go into Muay Thai, man, Id have to spend a lot of time. You know, I think that would take more time, working on Muay Thai, and I probably would have to give up the other two really to focus on the Muay Thai for a while, if you want to do well in the K-1 style of fighting. You know, because kicks are just a huge problem.
Now the usual questions are gonna come up. Whats up with you and the possible return to the UFC?
I dont think its ever gonna happen. People ask me that all the time.
Why do you say that?
I just dont ever see them wanting it. I just dont see them wanting to put the 155 pounders back in there, and putting me back in the 155-pound division. You know, theyve had plenty of plenty of opportunities to bring me back if they wanted me, but you dont ever see, you know, I never see them coming with a serious offer to bring me back, so, hey shit, I let it go a long time ago. I have a lot of teammates who do well in the UFC. I love and respect the UFC. I love the people who own and run it. I think theyve done a great job. But Im very happy where Im at. Im very content with the direction that Im heading and you know, who knows whatll happen in the future. I never write anything off, but I just dont see them wanting to bring me back. I dont see them wanting to build a 155-pound division.
Yeah, and the several times that Ive ever interviewed Dana White, since you left the UFC, I always bring you up, and hes always like, you know, Its possible. Were working on things. I talk to Jens everyday. I dont see why he wont come back. And he told me when you signed with Pancrase, he was like, if Jens can get a couple of good wins in Pancrase, I dont see why we cant bring him back. And then, the whole Josh Thompson-Yves Edwards title thing came into the picture. Then when I interviewed him again, he said, you know, its really hard, because nobody wants to the 155 pounders, so its hard to build up the division. My counter was that, Well, if you dont show the 155 fighters on T.V., how can people want to see them if nobody knows who they are?
Yup, I mean who wants to see a Frank Mir and Wes Sims there? Phil Baroni and Lindland go at it four times? So, you know, its, they act like, ah, well, people dont want to see the 155 pounders, or whatever. If you want to build them, you can build them.
Exactly.
Its just theyre not doing it. Theyre going a different road. You know, and the thing was it that they were competing with, I dont know if they were competing with Pride and only trying to really build the heavier guys. You know, maybe they were, so be it, but it looks like Pride just took a different turn, because now Im going to be the first 160 pounder to fight in Pride. In fact, I was the first 155 pounder to fight in the UFC, so somebody wanted us. You know, were not just side shows, and thats what Im there to help prove and I take, you know, I heard that same thing, go out there and get a couple of wins and you know, and make everything look well. But the thing was, the way I looked at it is, well, number one, either you believe Im a winner in the beginning or you dont. If a loss, if you got to boot me because of a loss, you know, and based on that loss I was trying to shoot the lights out, or Im trying to make things exciting, you know, thats what you should be looking at. Not whether or not I win or lose, you know. And, to have them go, you gotta get a couple of wins and well think about bringing you back. Its like really, am I that secondary? Do you really think I think that little of myself that Im gonna sit around and pray to God that Im going to win just so I can get back? Thats not what was going to happen. I was going to win, because Im a competitor. And Im going to fight because, you know, I compete, thats what I do.
I agree.
Either you believe in that or you dont. I cant change your mind, but tell me I got bring in couple of wins. I can understand a ranking system, if youre building one, but they were never building a 155-pound ranking system.
Exactly.
Theyre not showcasing them. So theres no real reason to go, so when I got into Shooto and was having a good time, you know, and those two big knockouts, and unbelievable fights, man. Thats hey, whatever, if that wasnt good enough, then I dont think anything ever will be. And thats just, and so be it. Theres no hatred, no bad blood, thats just how it is. Thats the game.
See for some reason, this goes a long with boxing too, people always want to see the heavyweights, but to me, I will take a welterweight, middleweight, lightweight, featherweight fight any day over a heavyweight fight. It doesnt matter who's fighting. Maybe its because Im only 165, so Im a little skinny guy, but, I mean, the excitements in the lower weight classes. Like the whole Yves Edwards- Josh Thomson fight, great Yves against Hermes Franca, Franca against Josh. All those fights, you know, you and BJ as well, were all great fights. It doesnt make sense. The crowd goes nuts, but then when you have a marketing scheme like Wes Sims. ...
The way I look at it, again, the way I see it too, is thats the thing, when Ive always believed it, when its a bad heavyweight match-up, its real bad. I mean, its terrible. But you can have a slow in fights in the welterweights or lightweights, and still its still pretty fast paced, its still pretty action packed. When you have a good hitter, I think it really doesnt matter the weight class man, when you have good fight, you have a good fight period. But man, sometimes being a little guy myself, Im always that way. Hey man, when those heavyweights, when you get some bad heavyweights, oh my God! Its terrible. Itll make you get up and leave the building. Theyre sitting there slapping hittings and stuff Ive never seen man. I mean, its gross. (laughter)
Like when Bruce Seldon fought, oh what the hell was his name, a couple months ago, its like what the what is this? Or, any, pretty much any Holyfield and John Ruiz fight, what are you doing?
Exactly, youve seen John Ruiz, and he just runs around and hugs everybody like he just married them (laughter), and thats the way it is. But then you see a Barrera and Morales, you get Kostya Tszyu, who's out there throwing just unbelievable powers, you see guys like that, you dont see too many bad smaller guys fighting, because of their speed. The speed factor is always gonna be the Manny Pacquiao. You know what I mean? Arturo Gatti making the comeback, Ward, I mean just, its just the list goes on and on. But then you go ahead and you want to see classic heavyweight match-ups and its a lot smaller, its a lot smaller. You know, its times I think based on boxing times for the heavyweights are changing, because its starting to get sorry, and people are starting to see, man, bad match-ups, you dont always get to a Michael Tyson go out there and one punch somebody. Yeah, they hit hard, and yeah, the threat of a knockout is there, but you know what? Here is more to it. You cant base everything on just knockout power. What happens if his knockout power aint there that day? Then how ugly is it, you know what I mean?
Like if the opponent is smothering him all fight long
Yeah, you cant do anything. But with us little guys, even if it is a slow fight, it is still a chess game and we are still countering each other. Like Floyd Mayweather. He is as good as all can be. But he is so good, he can make a fight terrible! He is constantly evading and its like, God! Just mix it up, please! Just for a minute!
Back to you, though, Jens. I hate to jump ahead past Gomi, but you lost to Ludwig and beat BJ. Out of those two, who would you prefer to land as a rematch?
BJ. Id fight BJ.
Over Duane, who beat you?
Yeah. Over Duane. Its been proven once again that Duane cant beat the top guys. Yeah, he got me. Merry Christmas early or Merry Christmas late, whatever. He beat me and thats fine. I think I have proven that I was having a down game and I am/was a lot better than what I showed that night. Again, I got caught up in that whole revelation that I wanted to stand and strike with a really good striker. I think I needed that eye opener more than anybody did. Im not really that hungry to beat people that beat me. I want to fight the best fighters and BJ has more than shown that he is one of the best fighters out there at any weight. As much as we run our mouths about each other, the bottom line is that hes a good fighter. He really is. He is a big threat all the time and I would love to fight him again more than anything. I think that is what people want to see more and that is what I am after.
Now what are your thoughts on BJ personally? Do you really dislike him or is that mostly just hype?
I dont really know him and there isnt really much I can say about that guy. I dont know him (personally) well enough to like or dislike him. I know we run our mouths about each other and in a fighting sense, even though I won, it was a big, unfinished fight for him. Its an unfinished fight for me in that aspect. You know, I dont hate the guy at all; I dont really hate anybody. I hated Hallman at the time (laughs) and I can say that one. I hated that guy. When you go out of your way to run your mouth, it is retarded when you cant back it up. But for BJ, on a personal level, I dont hate him at all. But in the fight world, you know, that is my Muhammad Ali. Ill be Joe Frazier, no problem. I won the first fight, he can come back and win the second, you know, thats just what it is. Its a great match-up between two guys who are very spirited, very competitive and want to fight again. We gotta dog each other a little bit and thats what happens.
Were you surprised to see BJ get booted from the UFC in the manner that he did?
No, I wasnt surprised because we all want to fight the best guys. In the UFC, sometimes they have a hard time because they dont do enough shows a year. I understand because there are a lot of things behind it and they can only put so many fights on a year. In other shows, you get to see fighters fight each other and get (built up). You got to see fighters fight many times and with me and BJ, everybody got see us fight three or four times before we fought each other. So I can see BJ wanting to go to other places and fight the best guys out there. That is what he wanted to do and thats what he did.
Last few questions, Jens, and then Ill let you go. How badly does Tim Sylvia want to get his mitts on Frank Mir and is there animosity towards Mir from Tim?
Tim is not looking past Arlovski, I know that. But I know deep down that he wants that fight and of course he wants (the belt) back. He wants the belt back and he wants to get it back from Mir. I know he wants it. I know that every time he looks at the scar on his arm, the kid is hungry. He wants to get back in there so badly and prove to everyone that it wont happen twice. He wants it really bad.
What about Miletich? Is he retired or will he every step into the cage for battle one last time?
I think Pat is happy right now with what hes doing. He is training a lot of real good fighters and there is no real talk about him coming back into the ring. I think he has taken the next level. He is letting his name carry on through us and we have no problem bearing his name with us. But right now, I think he is done. I know there are a couple of dream fights that might pull him out of retirement and hopefully someday he can get them, but as far as being competitive and continuing to fight, I think he is done.