Gross: I think, the UFC, the way they interpret the future, is pushing forward the Unified Rules throughout North America. That’s their vision of the future. But it doesn't sound like that’s PRIDE’s vision of the future. And the Olympics is very interesting because one thing they’re known for is their drug-testing policies. They’re very strict, especially with performance-enhancing drugs like steroids. If you come to North America [your fighters are] going to have to face many of the same tests that are in the Olympics. What is the current PRIDE performance-enhancing testing policy, including steroids and other kind of substances?
Hideki Yamamoto: It’s a matter of the traceability, except those complicated drugs like EPO and steroids and some similar substance. We need to send a specimen to the laboratory. Who can protect traceability? We need a neutral third party. But for other illegal drug substances we can get a result at once.
Gross: One of the arguments for regulation and sanctioning is to have that oversight body, that check, that independent party making sure the fighters are safe, making sure there is testing going on of fighters. In Japan there’s nothing like that. So in order for you to test for steroids you’d have to take that upon yourself. Is there any discussion in PRIDE of beginning to test for those substances in Japan?
Sakakibara: We don’t have a third party. And maybe this is a cultural difference but we hired doctors, referees and judges and they are independent. Even though we hired them to work with PRIDE, they are the ones who are the ones responsible for all the safety issues and also drug testing. We leave everything up to them and they test. Under their responsibility they’re going to submit us a result and then we judge according to the result. So for us it doesn't really make a big difference hiring a third party or hire those people by the promoter but to be independent from the promoter. I think it’s a big cultural difference.
Gross: One more follow up. Two of the UFC’s heavyweight champions have tested positive for steroids. It stands to reason that a good percentage of mixed martial artists use those kinds of drugs. Is it just PRIDE’s opinion that that sort of use is not important, that it doesn’t affect the outcome of a fight? Why is there no movement towards ridding that sort of usage from your promotion?
Sakakibara: We don’t test for steroids or we don't have a third party to test for steroids. But we don't think that always the steroid user has an advantage over a fighter who’s not using steroids. And we don’t know who is using steroids and who is not using steroids. But we don’t know if always the steroid users are winning over the non-steroid users.
Gross: OK, I have to follow up: If you test you would probably have a better idea of who was using steroids and who wasn’t. So I still have not heard a reason why PRIDE does not test.
Sakakibara: We are not opposing American regulations and requirements of steroid testing. But in Japan there’s no such thing. We are not required to test steroids for any fighter or any sports whatsoever. So we don't need, so we don’t do. If we come to the U.S. and of course we have to follow their rules and regulations. If we have to do, we have to do.
Yamamoto: Perception. Steroids is well known in the States but not many people use steroids in Japan.
Sakakibara: You have a good point, but maybe if you look over all the sportsman, not just the fighter — baseball player or gymnastics or anything — any kind of sportsman don’t use steroids in Japan in general. But in the U.S. the Major League players or runners or boxers — they all use steroids. That’s why there has to be some regulations. That’s totally different culture and background.
Gross: I understand that in the Japanese culture, steroids are not a prevalent issue. My concern is the good majority of your fighters are international fighters. I’m looking at the poster for PRIDE “Final Conflict”: three Brazilians, a Dutchman and two Europeans. Not one Japanese fighter on there. So just because no one is telling you to test for steroids, it’s the same way that no one is telling you to test for cocaine or no one is telling you to test for anything else.
Yukino Kanda: Cocaine is illegal in Japan.
Gross: OK, so steroids are not illegal in Japan and that is why you do not test.
Yamamoto: It’s a prescription drug. So if you try to use the steroids without prescription it’s illegal.
Sakakibara: This is just like other drugs. Like, for instance, ulcer medicine is prescription drugs. And if someone uses without prescription it’s illegal. So it’s the same thing for the Japanese people.
Yamamoto: Using the painkiller — you watched the Mark Kerr movie — it’s illegal usage even though the substance is legal.
Gross. I appreciate your patience. … The theme of the day is regulation and PRIDE coming to the U.S., which is why I’m asking these sort of questions. One of the major functions for the regulatory bodies in the U.S. is to keep track of if a fighter got knocked out, and suspending that fighter from competition if necessary. Does PRIDE, when a fighter gets knocked out or injured in its organization, medically suspend a fighter? And if you do, how do you enforce so he doesn’t fight [during the suspension]?
Kanda: Again, it’s the same thing. We don’t have any regulatory third party for any sanctioning body. So that’s really up to the promoter to give the fighter a suspension period. We’re very carefully consulting with the Japanese doctors. And also if the fighter is from outside of Japan we also get the result from that local doctors and make sure that fighter won’t be fighting again anytime soon unless the doctor says that’s OK. It’s the same thing. We don’t really need regulation but people follow, people have common sense.
Yamamoto: We don’t say American people doesn’t have common sense! But we’re basically supposed to harmonize the suspension and we have been respecting their decision and we don’t take any fighter who is under suspension. Josh Barnett (Pictures). We got offered but did not take him.
Kanda: Because he was under suspension. And somebody who is knocked out in the UFC, we never use that fighter for two-month or three-month period.