The Great Sherdog Debate: Hughes vs. GSP II
Sherdog.com columnists Greg Savage and Mike Sloan are at it again
as they break down this weekend’s ballyhooed showdown between UFC
welterweight champion Matt
Hughes (Pictures) and challenger Georges St. Pierre
(Pictures).
It’s a rematch of a memorable first encounter that Hughes won by armbar. Coming into this fight both fighters have found supporters, and Sloan and Savage think they know the real deal — but only one will have his keyboard raised in victory.
Mike Sloan: Man, it sure is lonely at the top of this food
chain Greggie. Not only have I risen above the .500 mark for the
first time in what seems like decades and not only am I the first
Sherdog debater to nab 10 wins, I have been whipping your hide
relentlessly. I have won three in a row and if I am not mistaken,
five out of our last six debates.
I remember vividly the bold proclamations of how you’ll never have a record at or below .500 and how I’ll never be able to catch up to you … blah blah blah. I’ve heard it all before and the tides have turned: for good.
Lemme ‘splain.
I follow all facets of sports as close as any rabid fan or media member and too frequently the fighter or team that is anointed the winner weeks in advance gets beaten. It happened to Tyson against Holyfield, to USC against Texas, to the A’s against the Reds (1990 World Series), etc.
It will happen in this fight as well. St. Pierre has coveted this rematch for months and Hughes seemingly has become more arrogant, to paraphrase what Matt Serra (Pictures) would say. Hughes insulted GSP during the TUF season and he seems too cocky lately for his own good.
Sure, Hughes has the strength of 10 tigers, his ground-and-pound ranks among the best, his submissions are top notch and his stamina is second to none. The only aspect of the fight game where St. Pierre is better than Hughes is in the stand-up area. That’s it.
There are too many intangibles factoring into this one, too many intangibles that actually favor Georges: redemption, hunger, desire, passion, somewhat ill feelings toward his opponent, youth, everybody betting their houses on Hughes and the champion’s pompous arrogance.
Hughes is due to lose and if B.J. Penn (Pictures) would have actually trained a little bit, we’d have a new champ (or defending champ, however you look at it.). Actually, Penn whipped GSP until he just stopped fighting, but who’s counting. Either way, I am throwing you an absolute bone because you won’t stop hounding me so you can win a debate using the Hughes trump card.
And that’s another reason why St. Pierre will win: You picked against him and your losing streak will continue to skid out of control to the point where somebody else on staff will have to take over for you for good.
Greg Savage: My empire has crumbled. My Dana White-esque hubris blinded me into thinking I would always be on top. But now I feel like Rocky Balboa in Rocky V or VI or whatever the lame one with Tommy Morrison was, when he went back to his roots after his long fall from the summit.
That’s right Mike, I trained for this debate in Iowa. I spent the week there getting ready for my showdown with the most MMA savvy FedEx driver in the world. So you go ahead and feel comfortable at the top while it lasts because I am fixin’ (country boy talk) to reclaim what is rightfully mine.
This should have been a tremendously hard fight to pick. With Georges St. Pierre (Pictures) running amok in the UFC welterweight division since his lone loss to Hughes a little over two years ago, he is a hard man to pick against. But after careful analysis I think I will do just that.
Matt Hughes (Pictures) is easily the most dominant champion the sport of MMA has ever seen. He just has this will to win that supersedes almost everything his opponents have brought to the table.
Kick him in the stones and nearly pound him out like Frank Trigg (Pictures) and see what it gets you: a ticket on Air Hughes (along with a complimentary headache upon landing) and another loss by rear-naked choke on your record.
Beat him up and choke him out when he is less than 100 percent after a tough weight cut? Get the better of him for the first two rounds of the rematch? Your prize is a broken rib and a cornucopia of right hands to the grill while you are trapped in the Hughes crucifix.
Let’s not forget that these guys have already fought before. Hughes tapped a green St. Pierre with only one second left on the clock in round one. He admitted he panicked. “Rush” was just plain broken by the man who has never been mentally broken.
I have learned over my many years that the more a person says something and the louder they proclaim it the less it is probably true. GSP can’t stop talking about how he was scared of Matt before their first rodeo and how he has gotten over that fear in the ensuing years. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that he will be able to keep those thoughts from creeping into his mind when Hughes inevitably gets him in a bad position.
Here is a little history lesson for you Mike: GSP has had his greatest success when fighters lay back and let him get into a comfortable “riddum.”
Don’t kid yourself into thinking Hughes hasn’t seen that and won’t be game planning accordingly. He can push the pace for the entire five-round affair, thus keeping St. Pierre from finding his comfort zone.
Matt Hughes (Pictures) will be leaving Sacramento with his belt still in tow after 25 minutes of scholarly work. And you can take that to the bank.
Sloan: Ha! You said “riddum.” That was classic. OK, I read your War and Peace length retort and I am winded, to say the least. I concur with you completely that this fight was a tough one to pick because, like you said, it is so hard to pick against GSP.
I had inked down Hughes to win the split second the fight was announced, though I never made an official statement. Luckily I have had to fortune to bask in the thick haze of rambling fans, experts and fighters about how Georges has no chance.
That is what swayed me the other way.
You see, everything you just typed is true. And virtually every single facet of the fight favors Hughes. Aside from the stand-up realm and the bilingual aspect of the two men, Hughes bests St. Pierre in every single category. Yet I still pick the Quebecer to prevail.
This may sound lamer than a wooden nickel, but I really have no argument for this debate because looking at the history of these two, St. Pierre should stand no chance. The only intangible I can stick with is the fact that Pierre is the huge underdog and that virtually nobody gives him a chance.
Am I putting money on GSP? No. But after seeing Bernard Hopkins tear apart Felix Trinidad, Texas toppling USC last year, Randy Couture (Pictures) ripping up Chuck Liddell (Pictures) (their first fight), and the Yankees and Lakers crumbling before everybody’s eyes, it’s time to pick the massive underdog in this MMA showdown.
St. Pierre will finally get the title and he’ll do it for all of his “Ah-Mare-Eh-Kin” and “Can-Uh-Dee-In” fans.
Hughes will have to pick some wheat to chew on once he gets back to his farm. Maybe he’ll have some for you, eh?
Savage: Now I don’t know where you get this notion that Matt Hughes (Pictures) is the overwhelming favorite among the throngs of MMA fans. While the betting line has Hughes (-135) as a slight favorite to St. Pierre (+105) our completely unscientific Sherdog.com poll has “Rush” leading by a 67- to 33-percent margin with over 9,000 votes.
So at least you are not alone in your ignorance.
And where in my response did I say this was a tough fight to pick? What I said was GSP’s recent run should have made this a tough fight to handicap, but after careful review even your average Sherdog forum member should have been able to see the fact that Hughes is the superior pick.
You know I really like Georges and would love to see him achieve his goal but I, unlike you, just don’t see being an underdog as an intangible … at least not in this case.
Honestly, this is the kind of logic that makes it so hard for me to accept losing to you in these debates. Seriously, how do you come up with this garbage?
Anyhow, since you didn’t care for my wordy first response I will keep this one a little pithier:
Give me back my GSD title!
Tim Sylvia (Pictures) vs. Jeff Monson (Pictures)
Sloan: I honestly couldn’t care less about this fight. What is there to look forward to? Sylvia by horrendously boring unanimous decision. Wake me when it’s over.
Savage: Big Tim by KO. The only chance Monson has is to take this to the mat and even if he gets there how does he get past the guard of Sylvia? Sooner or later (most likely sooner) Monson is going to run out of steam and get blasted with the right hand.
Brandon Vera (Pictures) vs. Frank Mir (Pictures)
Sloan: Way too easy to call. Mir will look sensational for about a minute, gas out completely and then Vera will tune him like a piano. Easy win for Vera who will look invincible against Mir.
Savage: Word on the street is Brandon Vera (Pictures) has his hands full with people who can outwrestle him. Unless Frank Mir (Pictures) somehow morphed into an Olympic caliber wrestler since his debacle against Dan Christison (Pictures) this past July I don’t think he will have anything on the talented Vera.
Alessio Sakara (Pictures) vs. Drew McFedries
Sloan: Two guys who fly under the radar for a living, but it should be a decent scrap. I’m leaning toward Sakara, probably by choke in the second.
Savage: This one should provide some decent fireworks. Both guys like to throw and McFedries has made it clear he has no intentions of taking this to the mat so the Italian boxer may have found someone to trade with him. I say Sakara by decision.
Joe Stevenson (Pictures) vs. Dokonjonosuke Mishima (Pictures)
Sloan: My pick to win TUF 2 has failed me only once but he certainly has his work cut out for him with Mishima, who finally comes to the States. Awesome fight, but Stevenson by decision.
Savage: Stevenson is going to roll. Mishima has shown the wear and tear of late from a career full of hard fought battles. He will have problems with Stevenson’s wrestling and positioning. Joe “Daddy” takes it by TKO referee stoppage in the second.
Nick Diaz (Pictures) vs. Gleison Tibau
Sloan: I am the biggest Nick Diaz (Pictures) fan this side of his close friends and family. I will never bet against this cat no matter what. Diaz by decision.
Savage: Man, this is a tough one. I saw “Tibau” scrapping at ATT when I was down in Florida last month. He is tough as nails and a pretty solid wrestler to boot. With that said, I can’t pick against Nick Diaz (Pictures). He is a walking quote machine and I think he should fight on every UFC card. Diaz by decision.
Antoni Hardonk vs. Sherman Pendergarst
Sloan: Two guys I don’t know too much about. I don’t recall seeing Hardonk fight before. I may have, but I can’t remember. So… Pendergarst by flying omoplata 20 seconds into round two.
Savage: I see you working Sloan. I will take Hardonk by power-bomb knockout.
Jake O’Brien vs. Josh Schockman
Sloan: Two young and undefeated guys locking horns. Can’t ask for more, right? Close fight to call but I am going with the “Irish” guy. O’Brien by choke out in the second.
Savage: O’Brien should be on his way to UFC greatness. How can a heavyweight with a pulse not be? Forget I said that. Still, I will take O’Brien by KO in the first.
James Irvin (Pictures) vs. Hector Ramirez (Pictures)
Sloan: Irvin has some cool ink and he has a few good knockouts under his belt. I see him doing the same against Ramirez in the first round.
Savage: Provided Irvin can make weight (a recent problem for him) I see him doing enough to get by Ramirez. Let’s face facts: this is a set up fight for him to win in his own back yard. If he can’t beat Ramirez he may have a long wait before he gets the call back from Joe Silva. Irvin by decision.
GSD Career Totals:
Sloan: 10-8
Savage: 8-8
Sherwood: 0-1
Gross (ret): 0-1
It’s a rematch of a memorable first encounter that Hughes won by armbar. Coming into this fight both fighters have found supporters, and Sloan and Savage think they know the real deal — but only one will have his keyboard raised in victory.
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I remember vividly the bold proclamations of how you’ll never have a record at or below .500 and how I’ll never be able to catch up to you … blah blah blah. I’ve heard it all before and the tides have turned: for good.
Everybody, and I mean everybody, believes Matt Hughes (Pictures), one of the greatest fighters in
the history of MMA, simply cannot and will not lose to Georges St. Pierre
(Pictures) on Saturday. Virtually every fan,
fighter, writer and suit are simply handing the fight over to
Hughes. In fact, most are trying to urge St. Pierre to not even
show up as he stands no chance. I however, think differently. I
know that St. Pierre will triumph in Sacramento and if you look a
bit closer, you’ll understand.
Lemme ‘splain.
I follow all facets of sports as close as any rabid fan or media member and too frequently the fighter or team that is anointed the winner weeks in advance gets beaten. It happened to Tyson against Holyfield, to USC against Texas, to the A’s against the Reds (1990 World Series), etc.
It will happen in this fight as well. St. Pierre has coveted this rematch for months and Hughes seemingly has become more arrogant, to paraphrase what Matt Serra (Pictures) would say. Hughes insulted GSP during the TUF season and he seems too cocky lately for his own good.
Sure, Hughes has the strength of 10 tigers, his ground-and-pound ranks among the best, his submissions are top notch and his stamina is second to none. The only aspect of the fight game where St. Pierre is better than Hughes is in the stand-up area. That’s it.
There are too many intangibles factoring into this one, too many intangibles that actually favor Georges: redemption, hunger, desire, passion, somewhat ill feelings toward his opponent, youth, everybody betting their houses on Hughes and the champion’s pompous arrogance.
Hughes is due to lose and if B.J. Penn (Pictures) would have actually trained a little bit, we’d have a new champ (or defending champ, however you look at it.). Actually, Penn whipped GSP until he just stopped fighting, but who’s counting. Either way, I am throwing you an absolute bone because you won’t stop hounding me so you can win a debate using the Hughes trump card.
And that’s another reason why St. Pierre will win: You picked against him and your losing streak will continue to skid out of control to the point where somebody else on staff will have to take over for you for good.
Greg Savage: My empire has crumbled. My Dana White-esque hubris blinded me into thinking I would always be on top. But now I feel like Rocky Balboa in Rocky V or VI or whatever the lame one with Tommy Morrison was, when he went back to his roots after his long fall from the summit.
That’s right Mike, I trained for this debate in Iowa. I spent the week there getting ready for my showdown with the most MMA savvy FedEx driver in the world. So you go ahead and feel comfortable at the top while it lasts because I am fixin’ (country boy talk) to reclaim what is rightfully mine.
This should have been a tremendously hard fight to pick. With Georges St. Pierre (Pictures) running amok in the UFC welterweight division since his lone loss to Hughes a little over two years ago, he is a hard man to pick against. But after careful analysis I think I will do just that.
Matt Hughes (Pictures) is easily the most dominant champion the sport of MMA has ever seen. He just has this will to win that supersedes almost everything his opponents have brought to the table.
Kick him in the stones and nearly pound him out like Frank Trigg (Pictures) and see what it gets you: a ticket on Air Hughes (along with a complimentary headache upon landing) and another loss by rear-naked choke on your record.
Beat him up and choke him out when he is less than 100 percent after a tough weight cut? Get the better of him for the first two rounds of the rematch? Your prize is a broken rib and a cornucopia of right hands to the grill while you are trapped in the Hughes crucifix.
Let’s not forget that these guys have already fought before. Hughes tapped a green St. Pierre with only one second left on the clock in round one. He admitted he panicked. “Rush” was just plain broken by the man who has never been mentally broken.
I have learned over my many years that the more a person says something and the louder they proclaim it the less it is probably true. GSP can’t stop talking about how he was scared of Matt before their first rodeo and how he has gotten over that fear in the ensuing years. Sorry, but I have a hard time believing that he will be able to keep those thoughts from creeping into his mind when Hughes inevitably gets him in a bad position.
Here is a little history lesson for you Mike: GSP has had his greatest success when fighters lay back and let him get into a comfortable “riddum.”
Don’t kid yourself into thinking Hughes hasn’t seen that and won’t be game planning accordingly. He can push the pace for the entire five-round affair, thus keeping St. Pierre from finding his comfort zone.
Matt Hughes (Pictures) will be leaving Sacramento with his belt still in tow after 25 minutes of scholarly work. And you can take that to the bank.
Sloan: Ha! You said “riddum.” That was classic. OK, I read your War and Peace length retort and I am winded, to say the least. I concur with you completely that this fight was a tough one to pick because, like you said, it is so hard to pick against GSP.
I had inked down Hughes to win the split second the fight was announced, though I never made an official statement. Luckily I have had to fortune to bask in the thick haze of rambling fans, experts and fighters about how Georges has no chance.
That is what swayed me the other way.
You see, everything you just typed is true. And virtually every single facet of the fight favors Hughes. Aside from the stand-up realm and the bilingual aspect of the two men, Hughes bests St. Pierre in every single category. Yet I still pick the Quebecer to prevail.
This may sound lamer than a wooden nickel, but I really have no argument for this debate because looking at the history of these two, St. Pierre should stand no chance. The only intangible I can stick with is the fact that Pierre is the huge underdog and that virtually nobody gives him a chance.
Am I putting money on GSP? No. But after seeing Bernard Hopkins tear apart Felix Trinidad, Texas toppling USC last year, Randy Couture (Pictures) ripping up Chuck Liddell (Pictures) (their first fight), and the Yankees and Lakers crumbling before everybody’s eyes, it’s time to pick the massive underdog in this MMA showdown.
St. Pierre will finally get the title and he’ll do it for all of his “Ah-Mare-Eh-Kin” and “Can-Uh-Dee-In” fans.
Hughes will have to pick some wheat to chew on once he gets back to his farm. Maybe he’ll have some for you, eh?
Savage: Now I don’t know where you get this notion that Matt Hughes (Pictures) is the overwhelming favorite among the throngs of MMA fans. While the betting line has Hughes (-135) as a slight favorite to St. Pierre (+105) our completely unscientific Sherdog.com poll has “Rush” leading by a 67- to 33-percent margin with over 9,000 votes.
So at least you are not alone in your ignorance.
And where in my response did I say this was a tough fight to pick? What I said was GSP’s recent run should have made this a tough fight to handicap, but after careful review even your average Sherdog forum member should have been able to see the fact that Hughes is the superior pick.
You know I really like Georges and would love to see him achieve his goal but I, unlike you, just don’t see being an underdog as an intangible … at least not in this case.
Honestly, this is the kind of logic that makes it so hard for me to accept losing to you in these debates. Seriously, how do you come up with this garbage?
Anyhow, since you didn’t care for my wordy first response I will keep this one a little pithier:
Give me back my GSD title!
Tim Sylvia (Pictures) vs. Jeff Monson (Pictures)
Sloan: I honestly couldn’t care less about this fight. What is there to look forward to? Sylvia by horrendously boring unanimous decision. Wake me when it’s over.
Savage: Big Tim by KO. The only chance Monson has is to take this to the mat and even if he gets there how does he get past the guard of Sylvia? Sooner or later (most likely sooner) Monson is going to run out of steam and get blasted with the right hand.
Brandon Vera (Pictures) vs. Frank Mir (Pictures)
Sloan: Way too easy to call. Mir will look sensational for about a minute, gas out completely and then Vera will tune him like a piano. Easy win for Vera who will look invincible against Mir.
Savage: Word on the street is Brandon Vera (Pictures) has his hands full with people who can outwrestle him. Unless Frank Mir (Pictures) somehow morphed into an Olympic caliber wrestler since his debacle against Dan Christison (Pictures) this past July I don’t think he will have anything on the talented Vera.
Alessio Sakara (Pictures) vs. Drew McFedries
Sloan: Two guys who fly under the radar for a living, but it should be a decent scrap. I’m leaning toward Sakara, probably by choke in the second.
Savage: This one should provide some decent fireworks. Both guys like to throw and McFedries has made it clear he has no intentions of taking this to the mat so the Italian boxer may have found someone to trade with him. I say Sakara by decision.
Joe Stevenson (Pictures) vs. Dokonjonosuke Mishima (Pictures)
Sloan: My pick to win TUF 2 has failed me only once but he certainly has his work cut out for him with Mishima, who finally comes to the States. Awesome fight, but Stevenson by decision.
Savage: Stevenson is going to roll. Mishima has shown the wear and tear of late from a career full of hard fought battles. He will have problems with Stevenson’s wrestling and positioning. Joe “Daddy” takes it by TKO referee stoppage in the second.
Nick Diaz (Pictures) vs. Gleison Tibau
Sloan: I am the biggest Nick Diaz (Pictures) fan this side of his close friends and family. I will never bet against this cat no matter what. Diaz by decision.
Savage: Man, this is a tough one. I saw “Tibau” scrapping at ATT when I was down in Florida last month. He is tough as nails and a pretty solid wrestler to boot. With that said, I can’t pick against Nick Diaz (Pictures). He is a walking quote machine and I think he should fight on every UFC card. Diaz by decision.
Antoni Hardonk vs. Sherman Pendergarst
Sloan: Two guys I don’t know too much about. I don’t recall seeing Hardonk fight before. I may have, but I can’t remember. So… Pendergarst by flying omoplata 20 seconds into round two.
Savage: I see you working Sloan. I will take Hardonk by power-bomb knockout.
Jake O’Brien vs. Josh Schockman
Sloan: Two young and undefeated guys locking horns. Can’t ask for more, right? Close fight to call but I am going with the “Irish” guy. O’Brien by choke out in the second.
Savage: O’Brien should be on his way to UFC greatness. How can a heavyweight with a pulse not be? Forget I said that. Still, I will take O’Brien by KO in the first.
James Irvin (Pictures) vs. Hector Ramirez (Pictures)
Sloan: Irvin has some cool ink and he has a few good knockouts under his belt. I see him doing the same against Ramirez in the first round.
Savage: Provided Irvin can make weight (a recent problem for him) I see him doing enough to get by Ramirez. Let’s face facts: this is a set up fight for him to win in his own back yard. If he can’t beat Ramirez he may have a long wait before he gets the call back from Joe Silva. Irvin by decision.
GSD Career Totals:
Sloan: 10-8
Savage: 8-8
Sherwood: 0-1
Gross (ret): 0-1
