From the Beginning: Q&A with Sal Garcia
Jan 29, 2005
Before Tito Ortiz became
known as “The Huntington Beach Bad boy” or captured the UFC light
heavyweight championship, Sal Garcia convinced the young fighter to
re-enter the UFC and build one of most successful careers a fighter
entering the Octagon ever had.
From 1998 to 2000, Garcia was a part of MMA history. He witnessed first hand Tito’s feud with the Lion’s Den and the historic battle for the middleweight title against Frank Shamrock.
Recently, Garcia released a documentary about the feud between
Ortiz and the Lion’s Den called “Relentless.” We spoke with Garcia
to get his perspective on “Relentless” and the upcoming fight
between Ortiz and Vitor
Belfort.
What compelled you to make the Relentless DVD?
What do you miss about the old UFC?
It was the Golden age of fighting. The old UFC was a proving ground for all fighters. The guys that were competing were not there because of the money. We all know that the fight purses back in the early days were not comparable to what the fighters are getting paid today. What I enjoyed most about it was the gladiator feel to the event. There were no primadonnas stepping into the Octagon.
I remember a few years ago watching a documentary where they featured some backstage footage of UFC 18, when Bas Rutten fought Tsuyoshi Kohsaka. Bas was the main event for this particular UFC and I remember watching footage of Bas warming up with his partner in a bathroom. Bas was the headliner of this event and they converted a bathroom into his warm up area! He and his partner were running into walls, bashing into chairs, and rolling around on this hard floor potentially injuring himself before the match.
If you wanted water, you brought your own water. If you wanted towels, you brought your own towels. The guys that were competing in the old UFC were there because they loved to fight.
What do you think about the new UFC?
It’s nice to see the fighters being treated so well. They roll out the red carpet and make the fighters feel like the stars of the show. The money is much better today than it was a few years ago, so we see more athletes able to make fighting their main profession. The new UFC has become a great experience for the fans as well. They have put so much back into the production that it has become quite a spectacular show.
Have you been to any shows recently?
I recently attended an underground show called Venom. The event had an “old school” feel to it. One thing that bugged me was that there were a lot of primadonnas complaining about getting paid $1500 to fight. Many young fighters today don’t realize that it would be unheard of to get paid a purse like that. It amazes me how much these young fighters take these things for granted.
Why do you no longer managing Tito?
Both of us were headed in different directions. We simply grew apart, but we ended the relationship on friendly terms. He later went on to be managed by Dana White and [he] felt going with Dana would be a good career move. I ran into Tito at the Venom show, he was friendly as always.
Why did you decide not to manage anyone else after Tito?
I really didn’t click with anyone the way I clicked with Tito. I wanted to manage Chuck Liddell, but didn’t work out. After I parted ways with Tito, I gave Chuck a contract, but he decided to go with Tito and make Dana White his manager.
I think Chuck made a bad move going with Dana White. It’s not Dana, it’s that Dana was managing Tito. If you are managing the No. 1 guy and you are No. 2 then you will always be No. 2. You always want your manager to be someone who will put you No. 1. If there is one steak and one hamburger Chuck will get the hamburger. Tito got the star position, and that set Chuck up as the No. 2 guy.
If I was a fighter and there were two managers, one is managing the No. 1 guy, and there is another manager who isn’t as sharp but will make me his No. 1 guy, then I’m going to go with the manager who will make me his No. 1 priority. I believe Chuck is still missing that small element that will get him the same status as Tito.
What are you doing since then?
I’ve been doing consulting work. I’ve been helping a company that will be doing an event in the near future.
What are your thoughts on Dana White?
I think that Dana is a great success story. Dana went from training fighters, to managing Chuck and Tito. Then the Fertittas bought the UFC and made him the president. No one can ask for more success than Dana was able to achieve.
Do you and Ken Shamrock get along?
To tell you the truth, I haven't seen Ken since that event. From what I understand, he doesn’t have the greatest opinion of me.
Did you go to UFC 40?
Absolutely. Considering the history that was involved between Tito and Ken and the part I played in the chain of events, I had to be there. It was good to go as a fan for a change. It was nice to really sit back and watch the fight unfold.
Were you pulling for Tito?
Definitely, I am always pulling for Tito! When I see an ad or a pay-per-view with Tito, I always feel that I helped in some way to make Tito the fighter he is today. I would really like to see Ken and Tito fight at their true weight. I believe a heavyweight fight between them would be exciting to watch.
What are your thoughts on Tito's career since you last managed him?
I think its gone great; it has definitely progressed. I always knew he could be big. What surprises me is that so many people helped him along the way to get where he is at today.
What do you think of the Lion's Den today?
It’s a shadow of what it once was. They were once a dominant force in MMA. They were shaping the future of the sport. I believe Tito is partially responsible for dismantling the Lion’s Den. When you would go to shows back in the day the Lion’s Den had a platoon of people, they were an army. It was impressive to see how many people came with them to a show.
You said in previous interviews that you had a close relationship with Vitor Belfort; can you tell us about that?
Actually, I was a student of Vitor’s for a couple of years, there were less than 50 of us at his academy at the time. Vitor was totally unknown at the time; it was Carlson Gracie’s name that brought people into the school. At the time Vitor was known as Viktor Belfort Gracie. The scam was that Carlson told people Vitor was his adoptive son. Being a student of his hanging around with him, our relationship developed through the academy. I also got the opportunity to meet his mother Jovita; she and I would speak frequently and we became friends.
Tell us your perspective on the upcoming Ortiz-Belfort fight.
I’m not sure if a lot of fans realize this is a fight that has been in the making for years. At UFC 18 Vitor was there and he said to the MMA Fans around the world, “I am currently working on deal to fight for the title against Frank Shamrock, and if Shamrock doesn’t fight me, Tito and I will fight for the vacant belt,” so Vitor was calling out Tito back in the day.
Then Victory in Vegas was supposed to have Belfort fighting Tito. One thing that wasn’t made prominent to the MMA fans was [that the] running bad blood was deeper than anyone knew. Tito had Carlson Gracie training him! Tito made an announcement at UFC 33 pre-fight press conference that Carlson was training him. Tito basically created this into a grudge match. The ironic part is that the House of Blues where the conference was being held was down the street from the first academy Vitor and Carlson opened together. This match has been a long time in the making and it should be very exciting!
When this fight finally happens after all this time, we know which Tito Ortiz is going to come out—brash, smartass, beach boy from Huntington Beach. The question is which Vitor is going to show up. If you look at the different pictures of Tito, you can see that Tito has basically had the same consistency with his personality and fighting. Vitor, if you look at pictures of him, his appearance changes all the time—just like which Vitor is going to step into the Octagon all the time.
Every time Vitor stands into the Octagon fans wonder, “Which Vitor is this? Is this the Vitor that came out swinging knocking out Tank Abbott, or is this the Vitor that came out to fight Randy Couture?”
When Tito steps into the Octagon is there any question of his stamina?
No, you know he will go 25 minutes and you know he is coming out to ground-and-pound. It is always a question mark [about] which Vitor comes to the ring; in my opinion Vitor has never been the same since that first loss to Randy Couture.
Back in the beginning Tito wanted no part of Vitor Belfort. Especially after the way he beat down Tank—that put the fear of god in Tito. Now Tito feels he has a better chance to beat him. But it will be interesting to see it go down, strikers have always been Tito’s kryptonite.
Who is your pick?
I am picking Tito. Tito has become a machine, and I can’t bet on what Vitor is going to come out. Tito will come out with some ground-and-pound and some stamina. I have no clue what Vitor will come out with. It comes down with consistency.
From 1998 to 2000, Garcia was a part of MMA history. He witnessed first hand Tito’s feud with the Lion’s Den and the historic battle for the middleweight title against Frank Shamrock.
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What compelled you to make the Relentless DVD?
There was a demand from the fans. Wherever I
go if that subject came up there would always be some stories. I
would always have a captive audience. The truth of the matter is
that people find it interesting. The perspective on how events
happen between managers and fighters is always different. If you
interview Tom Cruise, he will tell you what Tom Cruise wants to
hear. If you interview his manager he will have a different story
for you. So I documented my story and the finished product was the
Relentless DVD.
What do you miss about the old UFC?
It was the Golden age of fighting. The old UFC was a proving ground for all fighters. The guys that were competing were not there because of the money. We all know that the fight purses back in the early days were not comparable to what the fighters are getting paid today. What I enjoyed most about it was the gladiator feel to the event. There were no primadonnas stepping into the Octagon.
I remember a few years ago watching a documentary where they featured some backstage footage of UFC 18, when Bas Rutten fought Tsuyoshi Kohsaka. Bas was the main event for this particular UFC and I remember watching footage of Bas warming up with his partner in a bathroom. Bas was the headliner of this event and they converted a bathroom into his warm up area! He and his partner were running into walls, bashing into chairs, and rolling around on this hard floor potentially injuring himself before the match.
If you wanted water, you brought your own water. If you wanted towels, you brought your own towels. The guys that were competing in the old UFC were there because they loved to fight.
What do you think about the new UFC?
It’s nice to see the fighters being treated so well. They roll out the red carpet and make the fighters feel like the stars of the show. The money is much better today than it was a few years ago, so we see more athletes able to make fighting their main profession. The new UFC has become a great experience for the fans as well. They have put so much back into the production that it has become quite a spectacular show.
Have you been to any shows recently?
I recently attended an underground show called Venom. The event had an “old school” feel to it. One thing that bugged me was that there were a lot of primadonnas complaining about getting paid $1500 to fight. Many young fighters today don’t realize that it would be unheard of to get paid a purse like that. It amazes me how much these young fighters take these things for granted.
Why do you no longer managing Tito?
Both of us were headed in different directions. We simply grew apart, but we ended the relationship on friendly terms. He later went on to be managed by Dana White and [he] felt going with Dana would be a good career move. I ran into Tito at the Venom show, he was friendly as always.
Why did you decide not to manage anyone else after Tito?
I really didn’t click with anyone the way I clicked with Tito. I wanted to manage Chuck Liddell, but didn’t work out. After I parted ways with Tito, I gave Chuck a contract, but he decided to go with Tito and make Dana White his manager.
I think Chuck made a bad move going with Dana White. It’s not Dana, it’s that Dana was managing Tito. If you are managing the No. 1 guy and you are No. 2 then you will always be No. 2. You always want your manager to be someone who will put you No. 1. If there is one steak and one hamburger Chuck will get the hamburger. Tito got the star position, and that set Chuck up as the No. 2 guy.
If I was a fighter and there were two managers, one is managing the No. 1 guy, and there is another manager who isn’t as sharp but will make me his No. 1 guy, then I’m going to go with the manager who will make me his No. 1 priority. I believe Chuck is still missing that small element that will get him the same status as Tito.
What are you doing since then?
I’ve been doing consulting work. I’ve been helping a company that will be doing an event in the near future.
What are your thoughts on Dana White?
I think that Dana is a great success story. Dana went from training fighters, to managing Chuck and Tito. Then the Fertittas bought the UFC and made him the president. No one can ask for more success than Dana was able to achieve.
Do you and Ken Shamrock get along?
To tell you the truth, I haven't seen Ken since that event. From what I understand, he doesn’t have the greatest opinion of me.
Did you go to UFC 40?
Absolutely. Considering the history that was involved between Tito and Ken and the part I played in the chain of events, I had to be there. It was good to go as a fan for a change. It was nice to really sit back and watch the fight unfold.
Were you pulling for Tito?
Definitely, I am always pulling for Tito! When I see an ad or a pay-per-view with Tito, I always feel that I helped in some way to make Tito the fighter he is today. I would really like to see Ken and Tito fight at their true weight. I believe a heavyweight fight between them would be exciting to watch.
What are your thoughts on Tito's career since you last managed him?
I think its gone great; it has definitely progressed. I always knew he could be big. What surprises me is that so many people helped him along the way to get where he is at today.
What do you think of the Lion's Den today?
It’s a shadow of what it once was. They were once a dominant force in MMA. They were shaping the future of the sport. I believe Tito is partially responsible for dismantling the Lion’s Den. When you would go to shows back in the day the Lion’s Den had a platoon of people, they were an army. It was impressive to see how many people came with them to a show.
You said in previous interviews that you had a close relationship with Vitor Belfort; can you tell us about that?
Actually, I was a student of Vitor’s for a couple of years, there were less than 50 of us at his academy at the time. Vitor was totally unknown at the time; it was Carlson Gracie’s name that brought people into the school. At the time Vitor was known as Viktor Belfort Gracie. The scam was that Carlson told people Vitor was his adoptive son. Being a student of his hanging around with him, our relationship developed through the academy. I also got the opportunity to meet his mother Jovita; she and I would speak frequently and we became friends.
Tell us your perspective on the upcoming Ortiz-Belfort fight.
I’m not sure if a lot of fans realize this is a fight that has been in the making for years. At UFC 18 Vitor was there and he said to the MMA Fans around the world, “I am currently working on deal to fight for the title against Frank Shamrock, and if Shamrock doesn’t fight me, Tito and I will fight for the vacant belt,” so Vitor was calling out Tito back in the day.
Then Victory in Vegas was supposed to have Belfort fighting Tito. One thing that wasn’t made prominent to the MMA fans was [that the] running bad blood was deeper than anyone knew. Tito had Carlson Gracie training him! Tito made an announcement at UFC 33 pre-fight press conference that Carlson was training him. Tito basically created this into a grudge match. The ironic part is that the House of Blues where the conference was being held was down the street from the first academy Vitor and Carlson opened together. This match has been a long time in the making and it should be very exciting!
When this fight finally happens after all this time, we know which Tito Ortiz is going to come out—brash, smartass, beach boy from Huntington Beach. The question is which Vitor is going to show up. If you look at the different pictures of Tito, you can see that Tito has basically had the same consistency with his personality and fighting. Vitor, if you look at pictures of him, his appearance changes all the time—just like which Vitor is going to step into the Octagon all the time.
Every time Vitor stands into the Octagon fans wonder, “Which Vitor is this? Is this the Vitor that came out swinging knocking out Tank Abbott, or is this the Vitor that came out to fight Randy Couture?”
When Tito steps into the Octagon is there any question of his stamina?
No, you know he will go 25 minutes and you know he is coming out to ground-and-pound. It is always a question mark [about] which Vitor comes to the ring; in my opinion Vitor has never been the same since that first loss to Randy Couture.
Back in the beginning Tito wanted no part of Vitor Belfort. Especially after the way he beat down Tank—that put the fear of god in Tito. Now Tito feels he has a better chance to beat him. But it will be interesting to see it go down, strikers have always been Tito’s kryptonite.
Who is your pick?
I am picking Tito. Tito has become a machine, and I can’t bet on what Vitor is going to come out. Tito will come out with some ground-and-pound and some stamina. I have no clue what Vitor will come out with. It comes down with consistency.
