J.G.’s “Coq Roq” Mail Bag
People’s Reaction to Peoples & UFN
Josh Gross Aug 11, 2005
Oy Vey
Whats up J.G.? I'm writing you about the TUF fighters and UFN. Is my family the only family that notices that half of the TUF fighters fights are works? Pride is consistently accused of works but when I created a thread on sherdog stating this I was banned within 3 minutes. Okay the following fights are works and I'm not saying probably are NO THEY ARE WORKS.
Griffin vs. Mahood (mahood didnt even fight the choke that wasn't
sunk in completely and tapped.)
Quarry vs. Carter (carter's acting is pathetic he is flopping around and he gets "dropped" then is "rocked" but then watch carter's face and his reactions from there it tells everything)
Koscheck vs. Spratt (The most obvious of all of them Spratt easily gives koscheck his back then just stands there as koscheck gets the choke, pete doesnt fight it at all. and the icing on the cake is pete's facial expression it looked like he sold his soul.)
Now what do all of these fights have in common? None of them get out of the first round. Now let me ask you something if you are going to work a fight do you think it is going to be long and even more obvious? Just in case you are wondering why they wouldnt work fights for Leben and Bonnar, well I'll tell you. Leben lost 2 fights on the show so they dont want to work a fight for him, if he wins easily it makes UFC fighters look bad. Bonnar fought a TUF guy no need to work it. Study the fights and tell me what you think and I know you guys at sherdog what to be in good with the UFC but come on. Sorry for the length of this letter.
— Formerly IHATETANKMAN.
I can’t imagine why anyone would ban you from anywhere.
Nate The Sedate
Call him what you want Gross, but Marquardt is boring. After reading your interview with him I was expecting a lot. But this guy was lame. Fine, Salaverry didn’t do much either but at least the boring Marquardt could have done something. He’s so good, how come he didn’t go after Ivan? — Nick, Chicago, Ill.
OK. You win. The fight was slow.
But it sounds like you’ve never seen him fight before. You’re not alone. A lot of people, including some MMA media types sitting in the front row Saturday night, hadn’t either. But I predict the more you see of Nathan Marquardt (pictures), the more you’ll like the way he fights.
Really, it’s Ivan’s fault. Sherdog.com’s Masa Fukui used a great analogy to describe the fight, saying it was like watching two magnetic South poles fight each other. One guy moves forward. The other moves backwards. He didn’t think there was a winner, either. But Marquardt clearly won — though it wasn’t a sweep like we first thought.
Because of the venue and new people on the UFC staff, the media wasn’t supplied official scorecards. Receiving them on Monday I learned that judge Glenn Trowbridge gave the first round to Ivan, making it two rounds to one for the eventual winner.
Anyhow, wait until Nate starts using flying knees (he’s vicious with them) and you may change your tune.
UFN Officials Had a Tough Night
What the hell is wrong with Cecil Peoples? He jumped in way too early! Did the commission or UFC to be careful? I mean, it was a joke. Get Mario Yamasaki or have Big John ref all the fights.
Sell was fine and then this guy ruins the fight and starts things going bad. He should never get to ref again. And since I’m going off on people, what happened with the judges in the Chris Leben (pictures) vs. Cote fight?
When will these commissions start getting people that know about MMA. What’s going to happen when these guys who don’t know a takedown from a knockdown cost a UFC star his championship? I bet something good will happen then. And until this stuff gets straightened out there’s no way fights should become longer like you suggest. The idea’s fine but come on do you think these judges and referees are ready for that?
— No Name Given
Poor Cecil. For his sake, I hope he didn’t read the forums.
Anyhow, I’ve seen him ref hundreds of fights, and while he used to be a bit quick on the draw to stand action, he’s gotten better over the past few years. He earned his strips as a kickboxing referee and is one of the few crossover referees that have taken the time to learn mixed martial arts and understand what’s happening in the ring.
So while it’s easy to go after someone for a mistake (and there’s some discussion as to just how severe a mistake it was — we’re not talking Murilo Bustamante (pictures) vs. Matt Lindland (pictures) here), realize that there are people out there in charge or fights are consistently incompetent.
My biggest complaint about Saturday night was the scoring. I can see how a judge would find that Chris Leben (pictures) beat Patrick Cote (pictures). Jon Schorle gave the first round to Leben, second to Cote and third back to Leben. Fair enough.
But Roy Silbert, whom I’d never heard of before Saturday, and Dalby Shirley, a name I’ve heard far too often in discussions like these, amaze me.
First Silbert, the man of the head-scratching 29-27 scoring in favor of Patrick Cote (pictures). Like the other two judges, he gave round one to Leben. Yet in the second round, one I remember being deadlocked until the final 20 seconds when Leben lost his footing and fell to the mat while Cote swing at air, Silbert gave Cote a 10-8 advantage.
That’s just ridiculous. Even if Leben had been knocked down, scoring for MMA does not automatically deduct points on knockdowns. It would do Silbert good to get a refresher (or introductory) course on these sort of things.
And in the final round, which by most accounts was the fight’s most clear-cut, he scored it 10-9 for Cote when Leben dominated much of the period by grounding-and-pounding inside the guard. Unfortunately, only a handful of these judges avail themselves to the media. I’d love to get a chance to speak with Mr. Silbert.
On to Dalby, lovable Dalby. It’s clear now that he doesn’t have the first clue about judging mixed martial arts. I’m not sure if he’s allowed to judge boxing anymore. He gave Leben all three rounds. If the silver-haired official can tell me what a Kimura is, I’ll take it all back.
Whats up J.G.? I'm writing you about the TUF fighters and UFN. Is my family the only family that notices that half of the TUF fighters fights are works? Pride is consistently accused of works but when I created a thread on sherdog stating this I was banned within 3 minutes. Okay the following fights are works and I'm not saying probably are NO THEY ARE WORKS.
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Quarry vs. Carter (carter's acting is pathetic he is flopping around and he gets "dropped" then is "rocked" but then watch carter's face and his reactions from there it tells everything)
Quarry vs. Sell (when have we seen cecil peoples ref for the UFC?
never he is a judge, so with this premature stoppage the UFC can
say hey we'll just use him as a judge and not a ref again.)
Koscheck vs. Spratt (The most obvious of all of them Spratt easily gives koscheck his back then just stands there as koscheck gets the choke, pete doesnt fight it at all. and the icing on the cake is pete's facial expression it looked like he sold his soul.)
Now what do all of these fights have in common? None of them get out of the first round. Now let me ask you something if you are going to work a fight do you think it is going to be long and even more obvious? Just in case you are wondering why they wouldnt work fights for Leben and Bonnar, well I'll tell you. Leben lost 2 fights on the show so they dont want to work a fight for him, if he wins easily it makes UFC fighters look bad. Bonnar fought a TUF guy no need to work it. Study the fights and tell me what you think and I know you guys at sherdog what to be in good with the UFC but come on. Sorry for the length of this letter.
— Formerly IHATETANKMAN.
I can’t imagine why anyone would ban you from anywhere.
Nate The Sedate
Call him what you want Gross, but Marquardt is boring. After reading your interview with him I was expecting a lot. But this guy was lame. Fine, Salaverry didn’t do much either but at least the boring Marquardt could have done something. He’s so good, how come he didn’t go after Ivan? — Nick, Chicago, Ill.
OK. You win. The fight was slow.
But it sounds like you’ve never seen him fight before. You’re not alone. A lot of people, including some MMA media types sitting in the front row Saturday night, hadn’t either. But I predict the more you see of Nathan Marquardt (pictures), the more you’ll like the way he fights.
Really, it’s Ivan’s fault. Sherdog.com’s Masa Fukui used a great analogy to describe the fight, saying it was like watching two magnetic South poles fight each other. One guy moves forward. The other moves backwards. He didn’t think there was a winner, either. But Marquardt clearly won — though it wasn’t a sweep like we first thought.
Because of the venue and new people on the UFC staff, the media wasn’t supplied official scorecards. Receiving them on Monday I learned that judge Glenn Trowbridge gave the first round to Ivan, making it two rounds to one for the eventual winner.
Anyhow, wait until Nate starts using flying knees (he’s vicious with them) and you may change your tune.
UFN Officials Had a Tough Night
What the hell is wrong with Cecil Peoples? He jumped in way too early! Did the commission or UFC to be careful? I mean, it was a joke. Get Mario Yamasaki or have Big John ref all the fights.
Sell was fine and then this guy ruins the fight and starts things going bad. He should never get to ref again. And since I’m going off on people, what happened with the judges in the Chris Leben (pictures) vs. Cote fight?
When will these commissions start getting people that know about MMA. What’s going to happen when these guys who don’t know a takedown from a knockdown cost a UFC star his championship? I bet something good will happen then. And until this stuff gets straightened out there’s no way fights should become longer like you suggest. The idea’s fine but come on do you think these judges and referees are ready for that?
— No Name Given
Poor Cecil. For his sake, I hope he didn’t read the forums.
Anyhow, I’ve seen him ref hundreds of fights, and while he used to be a bit quick on the draw to stand action, he’s gotten better over the past few years. He earned his strips as a kickboxing referee and is one of the few crossover referees that have taken the time to learn mixed martial arts and understand what’s happening in the ring.
So while it’s easy to go after someone for a mistake (and there’s some discussion as to just how severe a mistake it was — we’re not talking Murilo Bustamante (pictures) vs. Matt Lindland (pictures) here), realize that there are people out there in charge or fights are consistently incompetent.
My biggest complaint about Saturday night was the scoring. I can see how a judge would find that Chris Leben (pictures) beat Patrick Cote (pictures). Jon Schorle gave the first round to Leben, second to Cote and third back to Leben. Fair enough.
But Roy Silbert, whom I’d never heard of before Saturday, and Dalby Shirley, a name I’ve heard far too often in discussions like these, amaze me.
First Silbert, the man of the head-scratching 29-27 scoring in favor of Patrick Cote (pictures). Like the other two judges, he gave round one to Leben. Yet in the second round, one I remember being deadlocked until the final 20 seconds when Leben lost his footing and fell to the mat while Cote swing at air, Silbert gave Cote a 10-8 advantage.
That’s just ridiculous. Even if Leben had been knocked down, scoring for MMA does not automatically deduct points on knockdowns. It would do Silbert good to get a refresher (or introductory) course on these sort of things.
And in the final round, which by most accounts was the fight’s most clear-cut, he scored it 10-9 for Cote when Leben dominated much of the period by grounding-and-pounding inside the guard. Unfortunately, only a handful of these judges avail themselves to the media. I’d love to get a chance to speak with Mr. Silbert.
On to Dalby, lovable Dalby. It’s clear now that he doesn’t have the first clue about judging mixed martial arts. I’m not sure if he’s allowed to judge boxing anymore. He gave Leben all three rounds. If the silver-haired official can tell me what a Kimura is, I’ll take it all back.
