J.G.’s “Coq Roq” Mail Bag
B.J. Penn
Josh Gross Aug 11, 2005
Stuck in a Penn
Awesome interview with BJ. You asked him just about every question there was and got some good answers out of him. But let me ask you, it seems like you have it out for BJ. What’s the deal? You’re pretty hard on him, especially after his fight with Renzo. Did he do something to you? He’s an awesome fighter so I’m not sure he deserves so much critcism. And let the guy do what he wants to do. He’s entertaining in my book.
— Pete, Eureka, Calif.
You’re right, fighters should be free to do what they wish. But
that shouldn’t mean they get a free pass from criticism, not when
they make claims and don’t seem to back them up.
If anything, I hold guys like B.J. Penn (pictures) to a higher standard. You’re not talking about a no-talent hack incapable of beating the toughest guys in the world. Clearly, B.J. has done that in the past. But in many ways he reminds me of a young quarterback who led his team to the Super Bowl and then decided he no longer needed to play by the same rules as everyone else.
So, if I’m tough on B.J. it’s because, like so many people who pay attention to this sport, I feel like we’re getting the short end of the stick. Here is a kid, incredibly talented, who’s just lazy. He really might have the skills to be the best welterweight in the short history of mixed martial arts. But we’ll never know. And despite submitting Matt Hughes (pictures), few people rank him above the wrestler these days.
For me, his morbid performance versus Renzo Gracie (pictures) was the last straw. At this point, there is no way in the world anyone could realistically say that Penn could hang with any top-10 middleweight. And if that’s not important to him, so be it. But it’s important to me and this is my soapbox.
P4P Penn “Sluggish” against Renzo?
You’ve got no respect for fighters. Even if Penn wasn’t his best, you gave no credit to Renzo Gracie (pictures) for pushing the pound for pound best fighter in the world to the end. You suck.
— No Name Given
Sure I do, but only as much as B.J. was sucking for air in his fight. Renzo is tough. He’s one of the few Gracies who, over the years, has stepped up and fought without the caveats and I’ve always admired him for that. But at 38, coming off a two-year absence from the ring because of a bad knee injury, how much could really be expected from the guy?
He was worn down midway through the second round. An in-shape top-10 middleweight would have had a real shot of stopping Gracie. Yet Penn, 12 years younger, couldn’t answer that call because he was sluggish and out of shape.
No indictment of Renzo here. Ware and tear have made him a different man in the ring. I’m sure even he will tell you that.
Let’s talk about this pound-for-pound debate. You get in that discussion by consistently dominating high-level opponents. Penn was well on his way to owning the list after wins against Takanori Gomi (pictures) and Matt Hughes (pictures). But decisions against Rodrigo Gracie, Ryoto Machida (pictures) and now Renzo have really killed his momentum.
(I offer this to those of you who’ll freak since I ranked Hughes above Penn.
B.J.’s opponents’ combined record since beating Hughes in January 2004 is a respectable 31-10. But looking deeper at that number Ludwig was horribly outmatched style-wise; Rodrigo’s best win before fighting Penn was against a blown-up Hayato Sakurai (pictures); Penn lost to Lyoto, whose claim to fame was a stunning knockout of Rich Franklin (pictures); and Renzo was 1-5 since 1999.
By comparison, since Hughes lost to Penn he’s fought three times. The first came in a comeback against Penn’s trainer Renato Verissimo (pictures), who was undefeated and had just dominated Carlos Newton (pictures) in his last fight; he followed with a first-round submission victory over Georges St-Pierre (pictures), considered by many to be the future of the UFC welterweight division; and recently waged a heroic comeback versus Frank Trigg (pictures).)
As of August 10 my P4P Top 10 list looks like this:
Wanderlei Silva (pictures) (PRIDE 205-lb. champion)
Fedor Emelianenko (pictures) (PRIDE heavyweight champion)
Matt Hughes (pictures) (UFC welterweight champion)
Tatsuya Kawajiri (pictures) (SHOOTO 154-lb. champion)
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (pictures)
Vitor Ribeiro (pictures)
B.J. Penn (pictures)
Rich Franklin (pictures) (UFC middleweight champion)
Takanori Gomi (pictures)
Chuck Liddell (pictures) (UFC light heavyweight champion)
Awesome interview with BJ. You asked him just about every question there was and got some good answers out of him. But let me ask you, it seems like you have it out for BJ. What’s the deal? You’re pretty hard on him, especially after his fight with Renzo. Did he do something to you? He’s an awesome fighter so I’m not sure he deserves so much critcism. And let the guy do what he wants to do. He’s entertaining in my book.
— Pete, Eureka, Calif.
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If anything, I hold guys like B.J. Penn (pictures) to a higher standard. You’re not talking about a no-talent hack incapable of beating the toughest guys in the world. Clearly, B.J. has done that in the past. But in many ways he reminds me of a young quarterback who led his team to the Super Bowl and then decided he no longer needed to play by the same rules as everyone else.
Imagine if Tom Brady decided he’d done all he needed to do after
winning that first title against the Rams. Sure, he’d be remembered
as a Super Bowl champion. But there’d be no shot at three titles.
There’d be no comparisons to the game’s all-time greats. Maybe even
no Bridget Moynahan.
So, if I’m tough on B.J. it’s because, like so many people who pay attention to this sport, I feel like we’re getting the short end of the stick. Here is a kid, incredibly talented, who’s just lazy. He really might have the skills to be the best welterweight in the short history of mixed martial arts. But we’ll never know. And despite submitting Matt Hughes (pictures), few people rank him above the wrestler these days.
For me, his morbid performance versus Renzo Gracie (pictures) was the last straw. At this point, there is no way in the world anyone could realistically say that Penn could hang with any top-10 middleweight. And if that’s not important to him, so be it. But it’s important to me and this is my soapbox.
P4P Penn “Sluggish” against Renzo?
You’ve got no respect for fighters. Even if Penn wasn’t his best, you gave no credit to Renzo Gracie (pictures) for pushing the pound for pound best fighter in the world to the end. You suck.
— No Name Given
Sure I do, but only as much as B.J. was sucking for air in his fight. Renzo is tough. He’s one of the few Gracies who, over the years, has stepped up and fought without the caveats and I’ve always admired him for that. But at 38, coming off a two-year absence from the ring because of a bad knee injury, how much could really be expected from the guy?
He was worn down midway through the second round. An in-shape top-10 middleweight would have had a real shot of stopping Gracie. Yet Penn, 12 years younger, couldn’t answer that call because he was sluggish and out of shape.
No indictment of Renzo here. Ware and tear have made him a different man in the ring. I’m sure even he will tell you that.
Let’s talk about this pound-for-pound debate. You get in that discussion by consistently dominating high-level opponents. Penn was well on his way to owning the list after wins against Takanori Gomi (pictures) and Matt Hughes (pictures). But decisions against Rodrigo Gracie, Ryoto Machida (pictures) and now Renzo have really killed his momentum.
(I offer this to those of you who’ll freak since I ranked Hughes above Penn.
B.J.’s opponents’ combined record since beating Hughes in January 2004 is a respectable 31-10. But looking deeper at that number Ludwig was horribly outmatched style-wise; Rodrigo’s best win before fighting Penn was against a blown-up Hayato Sakurai (pictures); Penn lost to Lyoto, whose claim to fame was a stunning knockout of Rich Franklin (pictures); and Renzo was 1-5 since 1999.
By comparison, since Hughes lost to Penn he’s fought three times. The first came in a comeback against Penn’s trainer Renato Verissimo (pictures), who was undefeated and had just dominated Carlos Newton (pictures) in his last fight; he followed with a first-round submission victory over Georges St-Pierre (pictures), considered by many to be the future of the UFC welterweight division; and recently waged a heroic comeback versus Frank Trigg (pictures).)
As of August 10 my P4P Top 10 list looks like this:
Wanderlei Silva (pictures) (PRIDE 205-lb. champion)
Fedor Emelianenko (pictures) (PRIDE heavyweight champion)
Matt Hughes (pictures) (UFC welterweight champion)
Tatsuya Kawajiri (pictures) (SHOOTO 154-lb. champion)
Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (pictures)
Vitor Ribeiro (pictures)
B.J. Penn (pictures)
Rich Franklin (pictures) (UFC middleweight champion)
Takanori Gomi (pictures)
Chuck Liddell (pictures) (UFC light heavyweight champion)
