Sato spoke with Sherdog.com about his famous video for the showdown between Fedor Emelianenko and Mirko ‘Cro Cop’ Filipovic in 2005, how he creates and develops his content (which are known as “agitation videos” in Japan), social media’s influence over the current MMA scene in Japan and the benefit of streaming platform U-NEXT gathering the rights for Ultimate Fighting Championship, Bellator MMA, Pancrase and Deep events all in one place.
Sherdog: English-speaking fans saw “Fedor vs. Mirko” as your masterpiece, but there was something different about that agitation video. The Anastasiya Svetkivska agitation video in 2022 had the same characteristics, but it is unusual to deal with an actual war when promoting an MMA fight.
Sato: Yes, that’s right. The Croatian conflict.
Sherdog: People in Eastern Europe and the Soviet Union, now Russia, were called cool or cold, and I remember Igor Vovchanchyn was also known as “Ice Cold,” but that agitation video was very emotional.
Sato: Especially with Mirko.
Sherdog: Yes, that’s right. Fedor also became emotional when his brother lost, and the cuts between camera shots became shorter and shorter. How did you come up with that video and the idea of the “Terminator” theme playing in the background?
Sato: Thinking back to those days, Mirko started out as a cool and ruthless villain who came from K-1. As he fought more and more in Pride FC, he gained popularity. He lost to [Antonio Rodrigo] Nogueira, and also lost to [Kevin] Randleman, but he still fought five or six fights per year. He had a long and emotional story about his path to fight Fedor, and I was inspired by the fact that he experienced war and lost his father in that war. I twice visited the house where Mirko lived with his father, even though it was vacant.
Sherdog: What about the “Terminator” theme?
Sato: Mirko was originally called “The Terminator” during the K-1 era. We dared to use it, but it is not a normal Terminator song. It is a special movie music disc (Erich Kunzel & Cincinnati Pops Orchestra: “Theme from ‘Terminator’”) I thought, ‘This is good,’ and used it.
Sherdog: Pride FC used to compete with the UFC, and Pride and UFC fans were at odds in the U.S. For Pride fans, the theme of Fedor vs. Mirko and the agitation video were very important at that time.
Sato: There was a real sense that the strongest man in the human race was going to be decided. By putting in a very personal and emotional story, a gap was created, rather than just having the strongest fighters compete.
Sherdog: Anastasiya’s recent agitation video showed the audience images of the destruction in Ukraine.
Sato: I think that’s because she was a fighter who won a lot of matches there. I think she is training a little bit away from Ukraine now, but that was just an introduction about it.
Sherdog: In Mirko’s case, the war was over, but in Anastasiya’s case, the war is now. Did you have to think about being careful about anything that was shown when you were making her video?
Sato: I don’t think so. We didn’t use pictures of people killing each other in the war. It was just an introduction that she had come all the way from Ukraine, and the rubble was a material that could be used freely, so we borrowed it.
Sherdog: When Anastasiya comes to Rizin, and there is a video of her, that alone will have meaning. People will think about the significance of Rizin having Anastasiya there.
Sato: Well, I think it will have a meaning, but I think it would be better to convey that meaning to the audience, so that they would be able to understand when she unfurls the Ukrainian flag in the end. I never intended to stir things up so emotionally. I did it in a calm way. For example, in European soccer leagues, they have a pre-match ceremony with a hashtag saying that they are against the invasion of Ukraine.
Sherdog: Since the war is still going on, what are you planning to do with Anastasiya moving forward? She was an elite amateur fighter and is a great prospect now, so there will be opportunities to use her, but have you talked about what you will do then?
Sato: I think I film her about the Ukrainian war and the current situation in a calm way; training to escape from the disaster area. I don’t think I force the fighters or the fans to be emotional. They must just feel similarly to me.
Sherdog: The pre-match video before Mirko faced Ikuhisa Minowa had Minowa running faster than an airplane. It was made into a gif in MMA forums overseas and people found it amusing. Do you have a sense about which fighters are easier to create viral content for and on which occasions?
Sato: In regard to the Minowa case, Minowa was extremely frustrated at the time and was acting strangely in many ways. I was simply filming that.
Sherdog: I’m interested in how the copyrights apply for Pride, Dream and Rizin’s agitation videos, and if there is a way to pay to watch them officially. There is no genre of ‘agitation video’ in the iTunes Store, Amazon or on Google Play, but there could be a way to develop and sell it.
Sato: I was consigned by Rizin to produce Rizin’s videos, as well as by Dream to produce videos there, and I was at Fuji TV to produce for Pride, so I am not in a position to say anything about that. Due to music copyrights, the rights are divided between those for live performances and those for archived videos. The permission is relatively easy to obtain for live performances, but I think it is much more difficult for archives and I think music is the key.
Sherdog: There is a website that uses Shazam to compile the music used for pre-match videos, and Sherdog has also compiled the entrance music of the fighters, so there are people who are interested in what kind of music is used. What do you think about making the music from agitation videos into content, such as listing it on Rizin’s website or by putting a QR code on the event pamphlet to indicate the entrance music for each fighter?
Sato: Do you think that would be a fan service just to increase the number of hits on the site? Or like a business, by making a compilation album?
Sherdog: Sachiko Hotaka, an official photographer for Rizin, made an Apple Music playlist of fighters’ entrance music, which was interesting. That kind of content could be fun.
Sato: If we are going to make money with music, we could have a festival with the musicians in it. It would be interesting to do that with the musicians that I have been using. If you don’t do it that way, you won’t make any money.
Sherdog: Are the rappers who appear during the fighters’ entrances at Rizin considered to be making friendship appearances?
Sato: Each fighter brings the rapper(s) in.
Sherdog: Just as hip-hop brings in fans from all kinds of backgrounds, so too does agitation video by showing various cultures, training scenes and so on. That even includes Internet memes as a cultural exchange. The Fedor-Mirko agitation video has been viewed more than 420,000 times even though it is not an official upload. That’s a larger number than Rizin’s highlight video for Jiri Prochazka.
Sato: I am very conscious about being grounded in different cultures. I love martial arts, but I don’t believe in it. That may be a little different from the American culture centering on the UFC, or the way to enjoy it. I would like to expand it by grounding it in various kinds of movies, music, social situations and comedy.
Sherdog: In that sense, when looking at the list of songs to be featured in Rizin, there is electronica, rap, rock, pop and reggae – often with Japanese artists performing – as well as other genres that are also covered. With that variety, are you trying to appeal to various demographics?
Sato: We are trying to cover them all. This is my own personal taste, but I don’t listen to music strictly by genre, and I don’t want to make agitation videos solely for people who only like the martial arts genre.
Sherdog: Doing that could potentially limit the viewing audience.
Sato: It narrows the audience, yes. I think I consciously express that in my music usage, and it is the same when I just listen to music. I think that people who listen to music only by one genre are not cool. Saying ‘I only listen to hip-hop,’ for example, is lame.
Sherdog: What are the criteria for selecting songs, such as a good melody or groove, and how emotions can be expressed?
Sato: It’s how it matches with each fight. It is a match of the value of the fight and of its narrative. There are so-called undercard fights, so a song will not match even if you put something too dramatic on it. It is not good to play a very emotional song in a competition involving less famous fighters. I try to choose songs that catch people’s attention. I don’t think I’ve used many songs that fans have heard elsewhere before, and I don’t think many songs that I use are mediocre.
Sherdog: There are big famous songs used, as well as smaller songs, which creates a good mix.
Sato: It’s kind of interesting, isn’t it? I think it’s interesting that all the beats, major and indie, are all connected in a martial arts way. That’s why I enjoy it.
Sherdog: How did you broaden your view of music?
Sato: It’s probably because of how the club music style is more accepting. I went to clubs, and I like DJs who play all genres.
Sherdog: The Rizin Confessions video series has English subtitles and can be viewed on YouTube from overseas. Do you cater any music choices to overseas fans as well?
Sato: I am not overly conscious about overseas [fans]. If I start making something with only that in mind, I won’t be able to make it. Like, I would wonder, ‘Will this be understood by overseas fans?’ That’s hard to do.
Sherdog: Nowadays, Rizin fighters send out their own messages on social media, and the Asakura brothers [Mikuru and Kai] have more YouTube subscribers than Rizin’s official channel. The core MMA fans in Japan are visiting YouTube channels created by Rizin fighters between events. Retired fighters, as well as active fighters in MMA, boxing and kickboxing, are all collaborating with each other. Japan is one of the only countries where that collaboration is happening.
Sato: Overseas, UFC is strictly controlling of its image, including the management of portrait rights. Japan is certainly unique, and because of that, we are able to get by. There are only four of us at Sato Video, plus an outside director. It would be impossible to promote all of the fighters with so few people. So, as a result, the success of YouTube was not by anyone’s intention, and Mikuru is bigger than Rizin in terms of number of subscribers. I think it would be good if there were more people like that, which is why we are not directing or controlling over what fighters say.
Sherdog: There is a great deal of freedom with fighters’ remarks. I cannot imagine Yutaka Saito collaborating with Monchhichi or anything like that in the old days of martial arts.
Sato: The era has changed. We don’t live in an era where major entertainment agencies have cozy relationships with TV stations to create buzz, so it’s good that it’s very modern. I think it’s becoming less certain whether YouTube will continue to be the king of media from now on. I don’t know, but it could be TikTok.
Sherdog: There is a video on Kleber Koike Erbst’s YouTube channel where Kleber is making fun of his teammate, ‘Master’ Isobe. It shows the mischievous side of Kleber, His fans may already know about that, but there is a missed opportunity for others to see it as well. It would be interesting to have a link that allows people to go back and forth between each fighter’s channel and Rizin Confessions.
Sato: The purpose of my Rizin Confessions is to create a large audience who will pay to go to the venue, not to increase the number of views. People will be introduced by each [fighter’s] YouTube video, and people will learn how interesting martial arts are. I think one of the appeals of video for fans is analysis. Critiques are all the rage. I think that Rizin Confessions is probably in line with this trend. It was unthinkable in the Pride era for fighters to look back on a fight and commentate it.
Sherdog: Here in Japan, analysis was pioneered by magazines such as Gonkaku.
Sato: Gonkaku and Kakutsu may have started it, but when fighters watch their own match videos and give commentary, everyone feels as if they know something and their literacy gradually improves. I think that is a good idea. What gave me a hint was that there were two fighters who wanted to talk about tactics and strategy. They were Tenshin Nasukawa and Kyoji Horiguchi, and they wanted to talk a lot afterwards. I thought that was good and interesting, and I think that is valuable for increasing the number of fans who are willing to pay to watch or attend.
Sherdog: In the past, overseas MMA fans used to make their own highlights of their favorite fighters, and they uploaded them with their favorite music and synchronized the music with the fighters’ moves. Today, fighters who score quick finishes can be good subjects of these highlight videos because it fits with the current era.
Sato: Rizin has started to do that a bit as well. It’s not my work, but it’s a collection of good finishes. I think that’s a good idea.
Sherdog: In the beginning, Rizin’s reputation was not well established, and there was an impression that the gap [in talent] between Japan and the rest of the world had widened after Pride FC and the Dream era. It was good that [Nobuyuki] Sakakibara came back and various fighters joined. People did not know about fighters like Jiri, but now he is considered to be the best light heavyweight in the world, or about others like current Rizin champion Seika Izawa. I don’t think fans view Rizin as being weak. The scouting ability of the organization by Shingo Kashiwagi is highly regarded, but it is difficult to match the names and emotions of unknown fighters to make them appealing.
Sato: Our income is mostly domestic, so the meaning of how to best promote foreign fighters has not been defined yet. We don’t have the sense that this will be a business in the United States. When I receive an interview like this, I’m just thinking, ‘Oh, really, there are people who are paying attention to this video stuff?’
For example, we succeeded in making Tofiq Musayev into a bit of a character. The other one is Vugar Karamov. What we are going to do with him was one of our themes. I don’t think we did a good job promoting Jiri, but I think he is wise to have gone to the UFC. I would like to see an event in Azerbaijan by featuring Karamov properly, and by interviewing Karamov in Azerbaijan and finding a story. If we can’t have that, we’re making a video for the Japanese fans only, and I think that is difficult.
Sherdog: There are stories like Kota Miura’s, who is popular in Southeast Asia on his own.
Sato: Kota is a golden boy. He is a potential star in Japan.
Sherdog: You worked on the Road to UFC Japan series. Will you continue to make videos for overseas organizations if you are asked to do so in the future?
Sato: I don’t think there are any current requests, but if there is a UFC Japan event like Road to UFC, they will probably ask me. However, I would not do that unless Sakakibara approved. There are not many people who’ve praised me for Road to UFC, so I appreciate that. I think it was super good.
Sherdog: Nowadays, with the emergence of the U-NEXT streaming platform to the MMA scene, it is hard to believe that the UFC and Bellator are on the same video platform in Japan. It was only recently discovered that there is a way to make money by combining mixed martial arts organizations, and this became apparent when the UFC debuted on U-NEXT.
Sato: I think it is a good thing for martial arts promotions. It has become a structure of U-NEXT versus Abema [streaming platform for One Championship and Shooto]. After all, the media is creating big business.
Sherdog: From an MMA fan’s point of view, being able to watch two major American organizations, as well as Deep and Pancrase, is a great deal for that price (2,189 yen = $16.36 USD). Users can also use the points they get once per month to help to purchase a Rizin PPV.
Sato: U-NEXT is expanding and it acquired Paravi [streaming platform] recently. I hope that Abema and U-NEXT will continue to compete with each other.
Sherdog: You spoke earlier about music, but what are your influences in terms of visual images? From films, for example?
Sato: Danny Boyle and Quentin Tarantino. It is about matching images with the music. Also, Hideaki Anno.
Sherdog: Regarding Rizin Confessions, there are some episodes showing technical aspects of MMA and training, and others showing expressions on the fighters’ faces when they win or lose, but is the main aim to show these scenes or to show the characters of the fighters?
Sato: It depends on the match, but I think it is both. I guess it’s a matter of what I think is interesting.
Sherdog: Is there anything that you’d like to say to international MMA fans?
Sato: I think that Japanese martial arts are easy to get into because of this kind of style [using agitation videos to promote]. In the U.S., there are many things that you have to follow for a long time and do a lot of research. I would like people to experience what we do in Rizin, and we would like to hold an event in the U.S. I also hope that Bellator stays healthy because I don’t think the UFC will ever do any cross-promotions. I hope Bellator stays full of strong and talented fighters.