Alpha Mail
Jake Rossen Nov 13, 2007
Excepting ads promising to lower my mortgage rate or remit millions
for the seemingly simple task of cashing a Nigerian's lotto check,
the Sherdog.com e-mail servers are an endless wellspring of valid
and well-formed opinions.
Not buying it? Fine. But there's still enough thoughtful commentary to give me a break from filling this space all by myself. Some missives on Randy Couture (Pictures)'s financial woes, the politics of pro wrestlers in MMA and more in this month's mailbag.
Haute-y Couture
At the risk of canonizing Randy, I think you need to look beyond what he is getting paid, which is in itself insulting. I can easily imagine that he decided that he has gotten to a position now where he can make the stand he has wanted to for a long time and that he needs to do it while his standing as the reigning champ allows his resignation to have maximum impact.
You have to imagine that there are armies of coaches, physios, sparring partners etc., who are providing services for little or no charge to the fighters because they just can't afford to pay. One can imagine this groundswell of disaffection for the UFC as they all see it grow without spreading the "love." I can see Randy as the Moses of MMA (and I am not even slightly religious), which makes Dana the evil Pharaoh (Matt Hughes (Pictures) will lap this up) -- leading the fighters to the Promised Land. Hallelujah! - Ed McGuigan
The UFC's impenetrable pay structure only offers two guarantees: If you think someone isn't making a lot of money, they probably are, and vice versa.
My editorial on Couture's exodus was composed prior to the UFC's release of his financial specifics. If he is indeed making more than $1 million per fight, I'd say that's reasonable for a fledgling sport that averages 500,000 pay-per-view spectators. After cable suppliers bleed their cut, that could work out to a $10 million take. Ten percent of that gets remitted to a single athlete? Nobody's going hungry.
Boxers like De La Hoya blow that much on their landscaping, but as others have pointed out, they assume their own promotional duties. Would Couture do the kind of business under his own banner as he does as a UFC athlete? If not, he might want to rethink his disgruntlement.
Very good comment about Randy´s departure from UFC. But what is missing from all comments about this subject is that Dana and the UFC are very unfair about most of his fighters.
Since the time the UFC started negotiations with Fedor Emelianenko (Pictures), Dana was giving declarations about him to try to damage his image and consequently lower his price on the negotiation. When a fighter refuses to sign with the UFC, Dana plays this dirty game. It happened with Josh Barnett (Pictures) and Fedor Emelianenko (Pictures) and will continue to happen until another organization comes along and steps up to the UFC.
Just because Fedor doesn't do any marketing, doesn't speak English, doesn't give interviews or agrees with Dana's stupid policies, he is no less a fighter than we all think he is. Dana is trying to be Don King on MMA, but the boxing crowd is different from MMA's; on the contrary, we understand martial arts. We know fighters, we follow their careers and we know who is the best in each division. - Sasha Reis
White's PR woes have never been more septic than during last week's UFC news conference, where he called Emelianenko a "farce" and deemed him unworthy of a top-five ranking. It was a depressing bit of juvenilia, akin to being rejected for a pick-up game and then sticking a knife in the basketball.
Even more disturbing: No one at the presser, mostly a coagulation of mainstream outlets, challenged the obnoxious statement. If Fedor is a farce, what will that say about No. 1 UFC heavyweight contender Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (Pictures) -- whom Emelianenko dominated on three separate occasions -- especially if the Brazilian nabs the UFC heavyweight crown?
It's about time someone stood up to the big bad UFC! UFC and other organizations are not giving the fighters the respect or financial compensation they deserve. I've spoken to actors who say they get paid every time one of their shows airs. The same should apply to all fighters, but the unfortunate truth is that this doesn't happen. If there is a DVD with a fighter's name on it, and that DVD sells, then that fighter should be compensated. Same goes for video games. Same goes for toys. Same goes for any merchandise with the fighter's face on it. The fighters are what make or break these organizations. Tito Ortiz (Pictures) is the first one to bring this into light for me with the Dana White-Tito sparring bull crap. If the UFC was going to use Tito to promote their business, then he should have been financially compensated. It's about time someone else steps up to the plate and fights for fighter's benefits.
I wonder what would happen to these organizations if fighters were to form unions and demand certain benefits, benefits that would be given to them if they had any other job.
I'm glad Randy and Tito are doing what they are doing. And as a graduate business student majoring in Finance, I compliment the writers at Sherdog for presenting an unbiased and objective point of view to the business side of MMA. - Ramon Carpio Jr.
The sport's current surge of popularity isn't going to be without its ugly financial standoffs. I find it particularly interesting that Round 5's first wave of MMA figurines (Matt Hughes (Pictures), Tito Ortiz (Pictures), Randy Couture (Pictures), Quinton Jackson (Pictures)) lack the familiar logo of the fighters' employer. It would appear these men negotiated their likeness rights and are free to do with them as they please.
Thanks for the compliments. I'm sure the staff appreciates them, particularly when they don't end with, "Love, Mom."
In your article "PRIDE and Prejudice," you pointed out that in the past many people were too quick to rank PRIDE fighters over their UFC counterparts. Until recently, they had not had the opportunity to fight each other and such rankings were only mere speculation … incorrect in many cases as it turned out.
But I see Sherdog making that same mistake now with its lightweight rankings. Of all its weight divisions, the UFC's lightweight has yet to receive a significant influx of PRIDE and other foreign talent. Thus, the lightweight rankings above all else still remain open to speculation and theoretical match-ups. Then why is it that Gomi, Melendez, Calvancanti, and several others are still ranked ahead of the best UFC lightweights? Despite the sobering examples of late, there still seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to rank these fighters from PRIDE and other organizations over the UFC's.
I am not arguing necessarily that the UFC lightweights should be ranked higher either. But a more thoughtful and careful standard should be applied to these rankings. Of course, until some of these guys are allowed to fight one another we will never truly know. But even now I can see some glaring controversies on the current Sherdog list. Gomi ranked as No. 1 despite his loss to Diaz, an opponent whom Sherk defeated? Melendez ranked as No. 2 despite a split decision win over Clay Guida (Pictures), who is still at best an up-and-comer in the UFC's own lightweight division. And so on. - Joon Suk Choi
I long to convince more people of the idea that rankings are a meaningless waste of time, energy and bandwidth. Until the top-shelf athletes are able to face each other, it's impossible to argue that one is superior to the other.
The UFC's acquisition of PRIDE seemed poised to resolve the situation, but now the industry is about to get more fractured than ever. Gary Shaw's mind-numbing decision to introduce more weight classes will only further cloud the issue. I think you can make reasonable statements about who belongs in a top-10 list inside a promotion, but anything else just invites controversy.
Wrestling with Respect
[Re: Brock Lesnar (Pictures)] Being both a wrestling fan and a MMA fan, I found the use of the word "insipid" a little much considering MMA and pro-wrestling are alike in so many ways, even though MMA guys never want to acknowledge it. At least Brock's pro-wrestling background allows him to give a good interview as opposed to Chuck Liddell (Pictures)'s always robotic responses. And just like in wrestling, MMA has one promoter who thinks he is the be all end all of his sport (Dana White, say hello to Vince McMahon) and that if he decides a guy doesn't work with him that he does not exist despite people walking around wearing the guy's shirt (Randy Couture (Pictures)). - Jonathan D'Antoni
Lesnar's MMA career won't have quite as much momentum as it would have if he had stepped in nearer to his WWE heyday. He's a few years removed from weekly television, and I think it hurts his appeal.
I cannot empathize with fans of pro wrestling. Never could. The behind-the-scenes machinations interest me -- who doesn't love a good YouTube video of a Warrior meltdown at a college campus -- but the theatrics make Warner Bros. cartoons look like Ibsen. The WWE is the biggest pile of s--- on television, surpassing even "Dirty Jobs."
Everyone seems to think I'm crazy, but I said exactly what you said about Randy. Casual fans probably think he died, because he's in 'limbo' now. It was made worse that his brand was everywhere, his fights were being talked about, and Tim Sylvia (Pictures) even mentioned him post fight and STILL nothing!
That PPV ad for the Evans-Bisping fight, was I the only one who thought that looked very PRIDE? With the camera pausing on the connecting shot, with the fighters' names dripping in blood. They can't even come up with original ideas, they just thrash that stupid gladiator guy and steal ideas from people with a sense of creativity. Oh well, they sure don't receive any of my hard earned (NOT) dough. - Jordan Deee
The UFC's refusal to acknowledge the Couture debacle further exemplifies their idea of a promotional utopia in which they control their own press. It works to some extent now, since mainstream media reps aren't savvy enough about the sport to ask the right questions.
I'll play Dana -- er, devil's -- advocate and speculate that they might be waiting for Couture to issue an official "no thanks" to their plans for a February title defense before commenting on it. If they do, something tells me the word "retirement" will be used early and often.
I am just curious: do you really feel Matt Hughes (Pictures) can beat Anderson Silva? - Mark Kruger
As Travis Lutter (Pictures) proved -- before he started gasping like he dropped a lung on the way to the cage -- Silva can be planted on the canvas and forced to work from his guard. Hughes can certainly take him down, but can he keep him there?
I would love to see what happens.
For comments, e-mail [email protected]
Not buying it? Fine. But there's still enough thoughtful commentary to give me a break from filling this space all by myself. Some missives on Randy Couture (Pictures)'s financial woes, the politics of pro wrestlers in MMA and more in this month's mailbag.
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At the risk of canonizing Randy, I think you need to look beyond what he is getting paid, which is in itself insulting. I can easily imagine that he decided that he has gotten to a position now where he can make the stand he has wanted to for a long time and that he needs to do it while his standing as the reigning champ allows his resignation to have maximum impact.
Couture cornered Tyson
Griffin at the last PPV. You can assume that he coaches Tyson
and mentors him to some extent. Now what do you think Randy Couture (Pictures) makes of the fact that Tyson took
home $24k because he got the decision and Tavares came from Brazil
to engage in that very entertaining bout for $9k? I honestly think
Randy is sticking it to the UFC for that as much as for not paying
him his market value. Diego
Sanchez (Pictures) got $22k for his great effort. I
see that Jardine took home $14k for defeating Liddell, who made
$500k for his loss (I hope that's a mistake and that they dropped a
zero, but it probably isn't). Forrest Griffin (Pictures) was supposed to take a trip to
hospital for his $22k -- glad he stuck that wrench in their
works.
You have to imagine that there are armies of coaches, physios, sparring partners etc., who are providing services for little or no charge to the fighters because they just can't afford to pay. One can imagine this groundswell of disaffection for the UFC as they all see it grow without spreading the "love." I can see Randy as the Moses of MMA (and I am not even slightly religious), which makes Dana the evil Pharaoh (Matt Hughes (Pictures) will lap this up) -- leading the fighters to the Promised Land. Hallelujah! - Ed McGuigan
The UFC's impenetrable pay structure only offers two guarantees: If you think someone isn't making a lot of money, they probably are, and vice versa.
My editorial on Couture's exodus was composed prior to the UFC's release of his financial specifics. If he is indeed making more than $1 million per fight, I'd say that's reasonable for a fledgling sport that averages 500,000 pay-per-view spectators. After cable suppliers bleed their cut, that could work out to a $10 million take. Ten percent of that gets remitted to a single athlete? Nobody's going hungry.
Boxers like De La Hoya blow that much on their landscaping, but as others have pointed out, they assume their own promotional duties. Would Couture do the kind of business under his own banner as he does as a UFC athlete? If not, he might want to rethink his disgruntlement.
Very good comment about Randy´s departure from UFC. But what is missing from all comments about this subject is that Dana and the UFC are very unfair about most of his fighters.
Since the time the UFC started negotiations with Fedor Emelianenko (Pictures), Dana was giving declarations about him to try to damage his image and consequently lower his price on the negotiation. When a fighter refuses to sign with the UFC, Dana plays this dirty game. It happened with Josh Barnett (Pictures) and Fedor Emelianenko (Pictures) and will continue to happen until another organization comes along and steps up to the UFC.
Just because Fedor doesn't do any marketing, doesn't speak English, doesn't give interviews or agrees with Dana's stupid policies, he is no less a fighter than we all think he is. Dana is trying to be Don King on MMA, but the boxing crowd is different from MMA's; on the contrary, we understand martial arts. We know fighters, we follow their careers and we know who is the best in each division. - Sasha Reis
White's PR woes have never been more septic than during last week's UFC news conference, where he called Emelianenko a "farce" and deemed him unworthy of a top-five ranking. It was a depressing bit of juvenilia, akin to being rejected for a pick-up game and then sticking a knife in the basketball.
Even more disturbing: No one at the presser, mostly a coagulation of mainstream outlets, challenged the obnoxious statement. If Fedor is a farce, what will that say about No. 1 UFC heavyweight contender Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira (Pictures) -- whom Emelianenko dominated on three separate occasions -- especially if the Brazilian nabs the UFC heavyweight crown?
It's about time someone stood up to the big bad UFC! UFC and other organizations are not giving the fighters the respect or financial compensation they deserve. I've spoken to actors who say they get paid every time one of their shows airs. The same should apply to all fighters, but the unfortunate truth is that this doesn't happen. If there is a DVD with a fighter's name on it, and that DVD sells, then that fighter should be compensated. Same goes for video games. Same goes for toys. Same goes for any merchandise with the fighter's face on it. The fighters are what make or break these organizations. Tito Ortiz (Pictures) is the first one to bring this into light for me with the Dana White-Tito sparring bull crap. If the UFC was going to use Tito to promote their business, then he should have been financially compensated. It's about time someone else steps up to the plate and fights for fighter's benefits.
I wonder what would happen to these organizations if fighters were to form unions and demand certain benefits, benefits that would be given to them if they had any other job.
I'm glad Randy and Tito are doing what they are doing. And as a graduate business student majoring in Finance, I compliment the writers at Sherdog for presenting an unbiased and objective point of view to the business side of MMA. - Ramon Carpio Jr.
The sport's current surge of popularity isn't going to be without its ugly financial standoffs. I find it particularly interesting that Round 5's first wave of MMA figurines (Matt Hughes (Pictures), Tito Ortiz (Pictures), Randy Couture (Pictures), Quinton Jackson (Pictures)) lack the familiar logo of the fighters' employer. It would appear these men negotiated their likeness rights and are free to do with them as they please.
Thanks for the compliments. I'm sure the staff appreciates them, particularly when they don't end with, "Love, Mom."
In your article "PRIDE and Prejudice," you pointed out that in the past many people were too quick to rank PRIDE fighters over their UFC counterparts. Until recently, they had not had the opportunity to fight each other and such rankings were only mere speculation … incorrect in many cases as it turned out.
But I see Sherdog making that same mistake now with its lightweight rankings. Of all its weight divisions, the UFC's lightweight has yet to receive a significant influx of PRIDE and other foreign talent. Thus, the lightweight rankings above all else still remain open to speculation and theoretical match-ups. Then why is it that Gomi, Melendez, Calvancanti, and several others are still ranked ahead of the best UFC lightweights? Despite the sobering examples of late, there still seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to rank these fighters from PRIDE and other organizations over the UFC's.
I am not arguing necessarily that the UFC lightweights should be ranked higher either. But a more thoughtful and careful standard should be applied to these rankings. Of course, until some of these guys are allowed to fight one another we will never truly know. But even now I can see some glaring controversies on the current Sherdog list. Gomi ranked as No. 1 despite his loss to Diaz, an opponent whom Sherk defeated? Melendez ranked as No. 2 despite a split decision win over Clay Guida (Pictures), who is still at best an up-and-comer in the UFC's own lightweight division. And so on. - Joon Suk Choi
I long to convince more people of the idea that rankings are a meaningless waste of time, energy and bandwidth. Until the top-shelf athletes are able to face each other, it's impossible to argue that one is superior to the other.
The UFC's acquisition of PRIDE seemed poised to resolve the situation, but now the industry is about to get more fractured than ever. Gary Shaw's mind-numbing decision to introduce more weight classes will only further cloud the issue. I think you can make reasonable statements about who belongs in a top-10 list inside a promotion, but anything else just invites controversy.
Wrestling with Respect
[Re: Brock Lesnar (Pictures)] Being both a wrestling fan and a MMA fan, I found the use of the word "insipid" a little much considering MMA and pro-wrestling are alike in so many ways, even though MMA guys never want to acknowledge it. At least Brock's pro-wrestling background allows him to give a good interview as opposed to Chuck Liddell (Pictures)'s always robotic responses. And just like in wrestling, MMA has one promoter who thinks he is the be all end all of his sport (Dana White, say hello to Vince McMahon) and that if he decides a guy doesn't work with him that he does not exist despite people walking around wearing the guy's shirt (Randy Couture (Pictures)). - Jonathan D'Antoni
Lesnar's MMA career won't have quite as much momentum as it would have if he had stepped in nearer to his WWE heyday. He's a few years removed from weekly television, and I think it hurts his appeal.
I cannot empathize with fans of pro wrestling. Never could. The behind-the-scenes machinations interest me -- who doesn't love a good YouTube video of a Warrior meltdown at a college campus -- but the theatrics make Warner Bros. cartoons look like Ibsen. The WWE is the biggest pile of s--- on television, surpassing even "Dirty Jobs."
Everyone seems to think I'm crazy, but I said exactly what you said about Randy. Casual fans probably think he died, because he's in 'limbo' now. It was made worse that his brand was everywhere, his fights were being talked about, and Tim Sylvia (Pictures) even mentioned him post fight and STILL nothing!
That PPV ad for the Evans-Bisping fight, was I the only one who thought that looked very PRIDE? With the camera pausing on the connecting shot, with the fighters' names dripping in blood. They can't even come up with original ideas, they just thrash that stupid gladiator guy and steal ideas from people with a sense of creativity. Oh well, they sure don't receive any of my hard earned (NOT) dough. - Jordan Deee
The UFC's refusal to acknowledge the Couture debacle further exemplifies their idea of a promotional utopia in which they control their own press. It works to some extent now, since mainstream media reps aren't savvy enough about the sport to ask the right questions.
I'll play Dana -- er, devil's -- advocate and speculate that they might be waiting for Couture to issue an official "no thanks" to their plans for a February title defense before commenting on it. If they do, something tells me the word "retirement" will be used early and often.
I am just curious: do you really feel Matt Hughes (Pictures) can beat Anderson Silva? - Mark Kruger
As Travis Lutter (Pictures) proved -- before he started gasping like he dropped a lung on the way to the cage -- Silva can be planted on the canvas and forced to work from his guard. Hughes can certainly take him down, but can he keep him there?
I would love to see what happens.
For comments, e-mail [email protected]
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