The Great Sherdog Debate: The TUF 4 Finals
Mike Sloan and Greg Savage are back again to debate mixed martial
arts’ next big card. The Sherdog.com columnists get go
back-and-forth on Saturday’s finale of The Ultimate Fighter 4,
which airs live on Spike TV from the Hard Rock Hotel & Casino in
Las Vegas, Nevada.
Mike Sloan:Yep, it sure is a great feeling when I pick the right guy to win, especially when it’s during a debate against you, Greg. It sure was fun watching your jaw hit the floor when the fighter you “discovered” and created a bandwagon for get his face literally twisted and distorted en route to being knocked out in the first round (just like I predicted). But it’s OK, Gregory, here is your chance to redeem yourself, as I am picking a fight with you so we can debate the two final matches for The Ultimate Fighter 4.
How are we going to do this since there are two fights? Should we
have it as a double debate or what? It doesn’t matter, though, as
I’ll be trumpeting around Vegas in yet another victory parade while
you sift through the ashes of a once brilliant debate career.
I am picking both Travis Lutter (Pictures) and Matt Serra (Pictures) to be victorious come Saturday night, two guys I had pegged since before the show was filmed to win it all. So far I have hammered only one nail on the head for each of the previous three TUF seasons, but this time I’ll get ‘em both right.
Unless Cote somehow lands one of those loopy telegraphed punches, I predict that Lutter will dance to the beat of the rhythm of Arona and lull everybody to sleep with a decision. There is no way that this fight will be exciting whatsoever and to be honest, it’s a fight that I don’t look forward to watching.
Not that these guys are terrible by any means … it’s just that their styles clash too much and it’ll suck the big one.
As for Serra and Chris Lytle (Pictures), this one should save the show. Since Brit Michael Bisping (Pictures) can’t make it over to America due to visa problems (he should have gone Capital One), the card suffered a huge blow and now not one single UFC fan cares about this Spike TV show (that was sarcasm, kids).
I see Serra winning a super close, almost too close, split decision over Lytle. Both guys are awesome fighters, both have heart and both are hungry. And Matt Hughes (Pictures) will eat both alive. Does the winner of this fight actually want to win? Come on.
Greg Savage: Man that was a tough one to watch, especially with you yapping in my ear like some Chihuahua after Anderson Silva rearranged Rich Franklin (Pictures)’s face like he was a Mr. Potato Head. (By the way, Anderson, that’s where the ear is supposed to go, not the nose.)
As for you leaving my debate career in ashes, think again. I am primed to go on another five- or six-fight run. So let’s get it on. I will take Patrick Cote (Pictures) and raise you a Chris Lytle (Pictures).
That’s right, the hard-hitting Canadian is going to bring home his first ever UFC win (official anyway). Cote has shown the ability to stand and bang with everyone he has faced and is seasoned enough to survive Lutter’s submission game. I have to concur that this fight will probably not make any of the UFC 2006 greatest hits shows, but that’s what can happen when two fairly evenly matched fighters get in the cage.
On to Lytle. I don’t know why but I think Lytle is going to be able to keep this standing, where he enjoys a distinct advantage over the always tough and determined Serra. Lytle should be able pepper Serra from the outside, not allowing him to close the distance for a shot or clinch. This has the makings of a polished striker attempting to pick apart a charging brawler if Serra can’t get the fight to the mat.
I will go out on a limb and say Lytle-Serra has to be the frontrunner for fight of the night, not based on how great a fight it is but rather the fact that someone has to win the 20 large. You never know how a card will turn out but I have to say this one is not shaping up to be a memorable night of fights, at least not for any positive reason. I hope I am wrong.
Sloan: You had your impressive five-fight winning streak earlier this year and now it’s my turn. I believe (Dionne Warwick told me this one) that I will assume complete command of this vessel and run the tables on you for a long time. I am seeing record numbers that not even a steroid-infused major leaguer can match: a nine-fight streak!
But back to the debate. The tricky part is that not only is this a two-fold discussion since we are chatting about two fights but also because each battle is super close and ultra competitive. I can honestly see either man winning in either fight but my gut feeling is that Lutter and Serra will take it.
Lutter, in my opinion, is sharp enough on his feet to avoid those deadly, albeit s-l-o-w telegraphed bombs from Cote. Yes, Cote is versed enough to handle himself on the ground, but he has yet to officially win in the UFC.
While I don’t think the Canuck is cursed to the point that he’ll never win inside the Octagon, I doubt his first victory under a Dana White contract will happen tonight. Luckily you agree with me that this fight will stink out the house. But you’ll regret not agreeing with me on who will win.
As for Serra-Lytle, I don’t see “The Terror” having as much trouble taking the boxer down as you predict. Lytle has a tremendous sprawl, but he ain’t the second coming of Liddell or “Cro Cop.” Also, even though Lytle is a prospect in pro boxing, he isn’t a world-class striker with concussive power.
Even if he is able to pepper Serra with his range for a while, Serra won’t crumble or wilt. As long as Lytle doesn’t whip out a spinning backfist or two, the Long Island warrior will do just fine … he’ll just have to work his ass off to earn the win.
Savage: Nine fights? In a row? If I were you I would get my scratch back from Dionne. She is playing you for a fool. Not that that’s a hard thing to do. Seems like that’s what I get paid to do, too.
Mike, the only thing I am going to regret after this night of fights is the fact that I won’t be there to see your face and rub it in when my guys pull through and add another notch to my GSD belt.
Cote and Lytle will both win by decision and that could be a resounding theme for this card. Apart from Thales Leites (Pictures) and Jeremy Jackson (Pictures) winning by submission, I have picked the rest of the fights to go to the judges.
I know the live crowd will be a little disappointed they only get to see the “Saw III” commercial 212 times (or whatever other crappy movie the UFC is plugging this time) instead of the normal 300, but that’s the price you pay when you do live television.
Man, I just have to say, this was one of the worst debates we have ever done, and that’s saying a lot. It’s hard to argue for any of these guys. And it’s not because they aren’t good or don’t have any talent. I think it comes down to the fact that relatively few people really feel that whoever wins will have a legitimate shot at becoming a true contender, much less being a true threat to winning the title.
Oh well, have fun covering this stinker. I will be thinking about you when I head out to Sacramento to cover a meaningful show. But we can get into that next week when we ponder the Matt Hughes (Pictures)-Georges St. Pierre (Pictures) II card.
The Rest of the Card
Din Thomas (Pictures) vs. Rich Clementi (Pictures):
Sloan: Hmm. Good scrap here. I like both guys as fighters and each brings different elements to the game, more or less. My gut was Din by decision and I’m sticking with it. Should be a solid fight.
Savage: This could be a pretty good tussle between solid fighters. I say Din Thomas (Pictures) takes this one after three hard fought rounds.
Pete Spratt (Pictures) vs. Jeremy Jackson (Pictures)
Sloan: What? Dana White let the Dope of the Year 2006 back into the Octagon? I am actually shocked about this one and to top it all off, the guy who got booted off the show for nabbing some booty will score a win in the UFC. Go figure. Jackson by first round submission.
Savage: Why are you so hard on “The Scorpion”? So he wanted to get a little strange, big deal. I am cool with the kid as long as he doesn’t jump over the cage wall and molest a ring girl before this fight takes place. As for the bout, it might be full of fireworks if Spratt can keep it standing. These are two of the better strikers in MMA and I am sure that is why this match was made. However, Jackson will get the fight to the mat and submit Spratt if he fails to do so on the feet.
Edwin Dewees (Pictures) vs. Jorge Rivera (Pictures)
Sloan: Not a fight I am eager to watch. Should be relatively lifeless. My pick is the blonde haired kid from Arizona by decision. Rivera can’t seem to catch a break these days and his misfortune continues. Dewees will prevail.
Savage: Hey, like the boss, I have a hard time picking fighters out of Arizona. The rules there handicap these kids when they venture out of the Valley of the Sun. Rivera is a durable guy who will grind out a win over the always-game Dewees.
Gideon Ray (Pictures) vs. Charles McCarthy (Pictures)
Sloan: Wow, another fight I couldn’t care less about. We have Tone Loc against Captain Miserable. Since Ray seems to get jacked every time he climbs into the Octagon, I don’t see why fate won’t change. McCarthy will stop him sometime in the second, probably via strikes from up top.
Savage: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Oh is it my turn? Wake me up when this snore fest is over. Captain by choke, or some other submission, or whatever.
Scott Smith vs. Pete Sell (Pictures)
Sloan: Wow, this card is terrible. I think all those loud shirts that Dana wore during the filming got to his head. I know that the key is to pit guys from the show against each other, but jeez, I’d almost rather watch rounds three through seven of the NFL draft than this. No slight to the fighters, but the match-ups could have been better. With that said, Sell will win via decision and the crazy-eyed sniper-looking Smith will be upset.
Savage: Come on now. This is one should be a pretty decent brawl between two tough guys who are more than happy to throw down. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Anderson Silva is hiding under a cover somewhere worried about the winner of this fight calling him out but it should be entertaining. Of the two, I would day Smith has the brighter future. Therefore, I will predict Scott Smith wins this fight by TKO in the second round.
Thales Leites (Pictures) vs. Martin Kampmann (Pictures)
Sloan: Never saw Leites fight before but I know Kampmann is a stud. He’ll take out the undefeated cat in the first round. Kampmann looks to be for real although it is still very early for the Scandinavian talent.
Savage: Leites is legit! Kampmann is in for a rough night come Saturday. I will now set the over-under for how long it takes Thales to submit the Viking at 17 seconds. Place your bets.
GSD Career Totals:
Savage: 8-6
Sloan: 8-8
Sherwood: 0-1
Gross (ret): 0-1
Mike Sloan:Yep, it sure is a great feeling when I pick the right guy to win, especially when it’s during a debate against you, Greg. It sure was fun watching your jaw hit the floor when the fighter you “discovered” and created a bandwagon for get his face literally twisted and distorted en route to being knocked out in the first round (just like I predicted). But it’s OK, Gregory, here is your chance to redeem yourself, as I am picking a fight with you so we can debate the two final matches for The Ultimate Fighter 4.
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I am picking both Travis Lutter (Pictures) and Matt Serra (Pictures) to be victorious come Saturday night, two guys I had pegged since before the show was filmed to win it all. So far I have hammered only one nail on the head for each of the previous three TUF seasons, but this time I’ll get ‘em both right.
In the less attractive fight of the two finals, I am picking Lutter
to eke out a decision over the gritty Patrick Cote (Pictures) in what should be one hell of a
boring contest.
Unless Cote somehow lands one of those loopy telegraphed punches, I predict that Lutter will dance to the beat of the rhythm of Arona and lull everybody to sleep with a decision. There is no way that this fight will be exciting whatsoever and to be honest, it’s a fight that I don’t look forward to watching.
Not that these guys are terrible by any means … it’s just that their styles clash too much and it’ll suck the big one.
As for Serra and Chris Lytle (Pictures), this one should save the show. Since Brit Michael Bisping (Pictures) can’t make it over to America due to visa problems (he should have gone Capital One), the card suffered a huge blow and now not one single UFC fan cares about this Spike TV show (that was sarcasm, kids).
I see Serra winning a super close, almost too close, split decision over Lytle. Both guys are awesome fighters, both have heart and both are hungry. And Matt Hughes (Pictures) will eat both alive. Does the winner of this fight actually want to win? Come on.
Greg Savage: Man that was a tough one to watch, especially with you yapping in my ear like some Chihuahua after Anderson Silva rearranged Rich Franklin (Pictures)’s face like he was a Mr. Potato Head. (By the way, Anderson, that’s where the ear is supposed to go, not the nose.)
As for you leaving my debate career in ashes, think again. I am primed to go on another five- or six-fight run. So let’s get it on. I will take Patrick Cote (Pictures) and raise you a Chris Lytle (Pictures).
That’s right, the hard-hitting Canadian is going to bring home his first ever UFC win (official anyway). Cote has shown the ability to stand and bang with everyone he has faced and is seasoned enough to survive Lutter’s submission game. I have to concur that this fight will probably not make any of the UFC 2006 greatest hits shows, but that’s what can happen when two fairly evenly matched fighters get in the cage.
On to Lytle. I don’t know why but I think Lytle is going to be able to keep this standing, where he enjoys a distinct advantage over the always tough and determined Serra. Lytle should be able pepper Serra from the outside, not allowing him to close the distance for a shot or clinch. This has the makings of a polished striker attempting to pick apart a charging brawler if Serra can’t get the fight to the mat.
I will go out on a limb and say Lytle-Serra has to be the frontrunner for fight of the night, not based on how great a fight it is but rather the fact that someone has to win the 20 large. You never know how a card will turn out but I have to say this one is not shaping up to be a memorable night of fights, at least not for any positive reason. I hope I am wrong.
Sloan: You had your impressive five-fight winning streak earlier this year and now it’s my turn. I believe (Dionne Warwick told me this one) that I will assume complete command of this vessel and run the tables on you for a long time. I am seeing record numbers that not even a steroid-infused major leaguer can match: a nine-fight streak!
But back to the debate. The tricky part is that not only is this a two-fold discussion since we are chatting about two fights but also because each battle is super close and ultra competitive. I can honestly see either man winning in either fight but my gut feeling is that Lutter and Serra will take it.
Lutter, in my opinion, is sharp enough on his feet to avoid those deadly, albeit s-l-o-w telegraphed bombs from Cote. Yes, Cote is versed enough to handle himself on the ground, but he has yet to officially win in the UFC.
While I don’t think the Canuck is cursed to the point that he’ll never win inside the Octagon, I doubt his first victory under a Dana White contract will happen tonight. Luckily you agree with me that this fight will stink out the house. But you’ll regret not agreeing with me on who will win.
As for Serra-Lytle, I don’t see “The Terror” having as much trouble taking the boxer down as you predict. Lytle has a tremendous sprawl, but he ain’t the second coming of Liddell or “Cro Cop.” Also, even though Lytle is a prospect in pro boxing, he isn’t a world-class striker with concussive power.
Even if he is able to pepper Serra with his range for a while, Serra won’t crumble or wilt. As long as Lytle doesn’t whip out a spinning backfist or two, the Long Island warrior will do just fine … he’ll just have to work his ass off to earn the win.
Savage: Nine fights? In a row? If I were you I would get my scratch back from Dionne. She is playing you for a fool. Not that that’s a hard thing to do. Seems like that’s what I get paid to do, too.
Mike, the only thing I am going to regret after this night of fights is the fact that I won’t be there to see your face and rub it in when my guys pull through and add another notch to my GSD belt.
Cote and Lytle will both win by decision and that could be a resounding theme for this card. Apart from Thales Leites (Pictures) and Jeremy Jackson (Pictures) winning by submission, I have picked the rest of the fights to go to the judges.
I know the live crowd will be a little disappointed they only get to see the “Saw III” commercial 212 times (or whatever other crappy movie the UFC is plugging this time) instead of the normal 300, but that’s the price you pay when you do live television.
Man, I just have to say, this was one of the worst debates we have ever done, and that’s saying a lot. It’s hard to argue for any of these guys. And it’s not because they aren’t good or don’t have any talent. I think it comes down to the fact that relatively few people really feel that whoever wins will have a legitimate shot at becoming a true contender, much less being a true threat to winning the title.
Oh well, have fun covering this stinker. I will be thinking about you when I head out to Sacramento to cover a meaningful show. But we can get into that next week when we ponder the Matt Hughes (Pictures)-Georges St. Pierre (Pictures) II card.
The Rest of the Card
Din Thomas (Pictures) vs. Rich Clementi (Pictures):
Sloan: Hmm. Good scrap here. I like both guys as fighters and each brings different elements to the game, more or less. My gut was Din by decision and I’m sticking with it. Should be a solid fight.
Savage: This could be a pretty good tussle between solid fighters. I say Din Thomas (Pictures) takes this one after three hard fought rounds.
Pete Spratt (Pictures) vs. Jeremy Jackson (Pictures)
Sloan: What? Dana White let the Dope of the Year 2006 back into the Octagon? I am actually shocked about this one and to top it all off, the guy who got booted off the show for nabbing some booty will score a win in the UFC. Go figure. Jackson by first round submission.
Savage: Why are you so hard on “The Scorpion”? So he wanted to get a little strange, big deal. I am cool with the kid as long as he doesn’t jump over the cage wall and molest a ring girl before this fight takes place. As for the bout, it might be full of fireworks if Spratt can keep it standing. These are two of the better strikers in MMA and I am sure that is why this match was made. However, Jackson will get the fight to the mat and submit Spratt if he fails to do so on the feet.
Edwin Dewees (Pictures) vs. Jorge Rivera (Pictures)
Sloan: Not a fight I am eager to watch. Should be relatively lifeless. My pick is the blonde haired kid from Arizona by decision. Rivera can’t seem to catch a break these days and his misfortune continues. Dewees will prevail.
Savage: Hey, like the boss, I have a hard time picking fighters out of Arizona. The rules there handicap these kids when they venture out of the Valley of the Sun. Rivera is a durable guy who will grind out a win over the always-game Dewees.
Gideon Ray (Pictures) vs. Charles McCarthy (Pictures)
Sloan: Wow, another fight I couldn’t care less about. We have Tone Loc against Captain Miserable. Since Ray seems to get jacked every time he climbs into the Octagon, I don’t see why fate won’t change. McCarthy will stop him sometime in the second, probably via strikes from up top.
Savage: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ Oh is it my turn? Wake me up when this snore fest is over. Captain by choke, or some other submission, or whatever.
Scott Smith vs. Pete Sell (Pictures)
Sloan: Wow, this card is terrible. I think all those loud shirts that Dana wore during the filming got to his head. I know that the key is to pit guys from the show against each other, but jeez, I’d almost rather watch rounds three through seven of the NFL draft than this. No slight to the fighters, but the match-ups could have been better. With that said, Sell will win via decision and the crazy-eyed sniper-looking Smith will be upset.
Savage: Come on now. This is one should be a pretty decent brawl between two tough guys who are more than happy to throw down. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think Anderson Silva is hiding under a cover somewhere worried about the winner of this fight calling him out but it should be entertaining. Of the two, I would day Smith has the brighter future. Therefore, I will predict Scott Smith wins this fight by TKO in the second round.
Thales Leites (Pictures) vs. Martin Kampmann (Pictures)
Sloan: Never saw Leites fight before but I know Kampmann is a stud. He’ll take out the undefeated cat in the first round. Kampmann looks to be for real although it is still very early for the Scandinavian talent.
Savage: Leites is legit! Kampmann is in for a rough night come Saturday. I will now set the over-under for how long it takes Thales to submit the Viking at 17 seconds. Place your bets.
GSD Career Totals:
Savage: 8-6
Sloan: 8-8
Sherwood: 0-1
Gross (ret): 0-1
